<2023-05-09T10:22:58.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: God, I feel so embarassed to ask this because I get the stereotype behind DMers, especially people like horatii. But would it be ok to have a DM like this? 
<2023-05-09T10:31:21.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Apparently, replies can be shown to others so yeah
<2023-05-10T05:31:49.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Anyway, if you wish to chat, feel free to use this DM
<2023-05-12T03:23:25.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I might just leave messages here from time to time, mostly because I feel I’ll go mad with loneliness which can honestly become crushing at times. This is probably also why I’m at least somewhat addicted to the Internet: if I don’t have the Internet, I fear I would’ve gone mad from the loneliness a long time ago.
<2023-05-12T16:10:52.000Z> LawrenceGerald: DMing is fine with me as long as everyone behaves. I've never seen you post anything on blab that makes me think you would misbehave, but as you know I am old, and married, and I have a policy that if I have a private conversation with anyone I tell my husband about it, simply because I believe secretive behavior is toxic to a marriage. 
<2023-05-12T16:11:50.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Loneliness is one of the hallmarks of our stupid gay age.
<2023-05-12T16:15:03.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Autism puts a giant barrier between me and everyone else, so I often feel lonely, and I would feel much crazier if I didn't know that our whole modren society is sick from the broken communion between people, and between people and God. 
<2023-05-12T16:16:29.000Z> LawrenceGerald: My current project is to convert feelings of loneliness and pain into repentance and humility, and to allow this pain of heart to cause me to seek God with greater zeal. You could do the same! 
<2023-05-12T22:05:13.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: For me, given what I know, its like I have to put on a mask IRL and cannot talk about certain things even to my immediate family
<2023-05-12T22:06:52.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: It probably helps that I’m more right than wrong but man, having to wear such a mask all the time can be tiring 
<2023-05-12T22:08:27.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Maybe you don’t already know this but I’m actually fairly quiet IRL 
<2023-05-12T22:09:35.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: It got to the point where my ethics professor, knowing that I know significantly more than what I was letting on, was repeatedly prodding me with questions to get me to talk 
<2023-05-12T22:12:54.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Now it wasn’t mean-spirited or anything, it wasn’t also anything to do with uh, “controversial” topics like jewish power. 
<2023-05-12T22:18:27.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I rather assumed you were a quiet guy. I also assume there's cultural differences that I can't really imagine. I feel sad--I hope and wish that you had someone to talk to that was smarter than I am and more fluent in philosophy. 
<2023-05-12T22:18:40.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And the reason why she knows I know a lot more than what I let on in class is because I do actually talk to her about ethics or philosophy related stuff after class. I personally do not do well at all in a more public capacity so I generally prefer more personal conversations.
<2023-05-12T22:21:26.000Z> LawrenceGerald: My one close female friend is much smarter than I am, much smarter than most people, and she still talks to me. Probably because I edit all her writing for free. 
<2023-05-12T22:24:31.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I now think of you when I read a reference to the essence-energy distinction. I read something the other day--a Holy Father whose writings I haven't delved into yet--and I thought of you. But I didn't save it, and now it's gone from my mind, washed away by lots of little worldly details.  
<2023-05-12T22:25:16.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I actually hope to study that some day in more detail 
<2023-05-12T22:25:49.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: But Proclus first, then either Athanasius or Pseudo-Dionysius.
<2023-05-12T22:27:08.000Z> LawrenceGerald: During all this, consider visiting the Russian Orthodox Church. It might open up a new dimension of understanding for you.
<2023-05-12T22:47:03.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: It is still in my mind
<2023-05-12T22:47:24.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Although now I have to be honest, one thing that has me a bit worried is the fasting 
<2023-05-12T22:47:39.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well, not actually even the fasting itself, but how my parents will see it 
<2023-05-12T22:49:18.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: If the rules are expected to apply to even the laity of Orthodoxy then I actually don’t mind going through with it. It’s not too bad or hard either considering there’s actually a considerable vegetarian food industry here. 
<2023-05-12T22:49:51.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: The main problem is how my mum will react if I’m basically eating vegetarian food for like, 40 days in a row 
<2023-05-12T22:50:44.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Like my mum is a practicing Buddhist but she’s not THAT hardcore. She eats vegetarian food like twice a lunar month, I think?
<2023-05-12T22:52:56.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: While to my understanding, even Orthodox laity are expected to abstain from meat, eggs and dairy (and olive oil and wine) twice a week 
<2023-05-12T22:56:07.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Now Wednesdays and Fridays I can get by, its really those 40 day fasts
<2023-05-12T22:59:08.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I cannot reasonably expect my mum and everyone else to accomodate what is essentially vegetarian food consumption for 40 days, so most likely I’ll have to eat out for those 40 days. Now, everyone else in the family doesn’t mind accomodating when mum has to eat vegetarian food, but that’s like twice every lunar month, not 40 days.
<2023-05-12T23:12:54.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: It’ll probably be a shock when I announce it but if I gotta, I gotta 
<2023-05-12T23:51:47.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Oh my fren. EVERYONE struggles with the fasts. In our age, when every form of pleasure and delight is on offer, even a little discipline is so hard. It's something you discuss with your priest, and you wouldn't be expected to do it until you officially become a catechumen. Fasting isn't something we undertake by ourselves, in isolation, and your family situation may factor in. Your priest will be able to guide you. 
<2023-05-12T23:55:35.000Z> LawrenceGerald: But yes, we all adhere to the same fast unless we have some kind of special situation going on, like my husband has to eat keto for his health. He and our priest worked out how he fasts. It's easy to fixate on the physical abstention aspect, but really fasting is to humble oneself, and to say no to oneself, and to learn not to be enslaved by the demands of our bodies.
<2023-05-12T23:57:57.000Z> LawrenceGerald: It's taken me years to even have a somewhat good attitude about it, and my faith is the most important thing in my life. 
<2023-05-13T00:31:46.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I have also heard that fasting is also supposed to hone the spirit, hence the need to be on guard against sin during fasting 
<2023-05-13T00:32:02.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: A catechumen is like a student, right?
<2023-05-13T00:32:24.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Who is learning about Orthodoxy in preparation for baptism 
<2023-05-13T01:42:07.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And just some small talk: whew, I got by this particular academic term and didn’t actually fail anything 
<2023-05-13T01:43:09.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: A lot of them are Bs but I’m mostly concerned with passing, for this term my mind was basically tuned off 
<2023-05-13T01:44:13.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well ok I don’t want to do too badly so that I end up receiving a letter or something from university, I really don’t need my parents to start worrying 
<2023-05-13T01:48:43.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: At least university education here is heavily subsidised by the government but I still think that nearly any kind of university in the modern day is essentially a subversive institution 
<2023-05-13T01:52:11.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Like at least students here are not saddled with unpayable debt but I still don’t really like what is taught in universities here, or at least what is taught in my particular university 
<2023-05-13T02:45:09.000Z> LawrenceGerald: this is an interesting subject but I’m going to bed—more tomorrow. peace be to you fren.☦️
<2023-05-13T03:23:02.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Peace be to you too!
<2023-05-13T21:48:46.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh btw, I *might* not be available for the whole day, so in case I’m not responding…
<2023-05-13T21:49:01.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: (Mostly because I’m off to Malaysia for one day.)
<2023-05-13T22:08:40.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I actually nearly forgot to mention but I wanted to bring this up since you mentioned the essence-energy distinction: I *think* I read something similar in Proclus
<2023-05-13T22:09:03.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I said “think” because I can’t be entirely sure but it seems to line up with my understanding of it 
<2023-05-13T22:11:03.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Proclus makes the argument that any God itself (he is after all a pagan and wanted to integrate Greek pagan polytheism into Neo-Platonism) is unknowable but through his effects we can at least name him and understand his peculiarities  
<2023-05-13T22:12:38.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: So basically we cannot know any God by itself according to Proclus, but can still gain at least some understanding of God through analogy, at least that’s how I understood Proclus 
<2023-05-13T22:28:07.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Proposition 162 (it continues onto the next page, hang on) https://i.poastcdn.org/fa684cea3c1440a3466acc42c539bf53aaf75dd0ccef4ab79e5219b38018ab70.jpeg
<2023-05-13T22:28:41.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: (First part of the second page is Proposition 162) https://i.poastcdn.org/4b07a072f616040282960501ca361409478dd01f6d92d85dee358cc53c6c7c1b.jpeg
<2023-05-14T05:29:45.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And yeah, God for the Neo-Platonists must be present in all things but yet none of these things, in that sense it is immanent and transcendent 
<2023-05-14T05:32:14.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: God cannot be a thing, because God as the necessary condition of all things (as in, all things depend on and require God to exist) must be prior to all things, so it cannot even be a thing 
<2023-05-14T05:32:43.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: “Not a thing” as in “not any one thing”
<2023-05-14T05:36:22.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Like, God pre-exists even thing-ness itself
<2023-05-14T06:02:09.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: ..…I sperged out again, didn’t I?
<2023-05-14T16:09:56.000Z> LawrenceGerald: >>I sperged out again, didn’t I?<< ... I am myself not a good judge of such things. I'm tragically prone to boring people with things that are of interest only to me. otoh, this kind of discourse would be completely normal for philosophy students in a prior age, at least in the West. I know there is a large body, thousands of years' worth, of Chinese philosophy and I wonder why you aren't applying yourself to it. That was how Fr. Seraphim Rose came to know capital-T Truth.
<2023-05-14T16:13:05.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Yesterday I did prison ministry all day, and when I came home I was exhausted. I could barely even talk to my husband. Prison is a hideously over-stimulating environment, and all the stimuli is really bad. Smells, noises, dreary visuals, and since it was a women's prison, an absolute fuckton of unregulated emotions. I've been thinking how to answer the pages you posted. 
<2023-05-14T16:17:24.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I read them, then read them again. I attempted to understand what they are saying, but something stops me. That is: this is ancient pagan philosophy. The ancients really, truly, deeply believed that the gods PLURAL they worshipped, the ones referred to here, were real. I don't assume I know what you believe, but most modern people approach ancient philosophy with an attitude that "well, we know there's no such thing as a pantheon of petty gods always warring and competing with each other. The ancients were simply not as sophisticated and knowledgeable as we are and they were attempting to explain natural phenomena using their primitive logic."
<2023-05-14T16:17:33.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well for the first, what can I say, I ended up reading Thinking Being first so I got to go down the Platonism rabbit-hole first 
<2023-05-14T16:19:13.000Z> LawrenceGerald: You know, the belief that these are all myth and just-so stories that are all saying sort of the same thing, but differently. But the ancients didn't see it that way. 
<2023-05-14T16:20:21.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I don't want to digress too much toward that though. I think I said once that these gods, the ones Plotinus is referring to, which are ALWAYS IN THE PLURAL--these gods are actually real. 
<2023-05-14T16:20:33.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: For the second, oh shit, prison ministry? The inmates were difficult to handle then?
<2023-05-14T16:21:54.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: For the third, ehhhh yes they are pagans so they did believe in multiple gods but the Neo-Platonists were very explicit about there being specifically one ultimate God, one highest God, one ultimate cause of all reality 
<2023-05-14T16:22:30.000Z> LawrenceGerald: They are created being that are disobedient and rebellious to the Lord Most High, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So anything Plotinus has to say about them is study of created being, not the Creator. Not only that, these beings are thousands of years old and fathoms more intelligent than we are and their purpose is to confuse and mislead us away from truth. 
<2023-05-14T16:23:07.000Z> LawrenceGerald: sorry, typo--I meant to type beingS
<2023-05-14T16:27:26.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Yeah I don’t think a Christian is supposed to accept basically everything whatever Proclus is saying 
<2023-05-14T16:27:30.000Z> LawrenceGerald: So I don't feel it is a good for me to pursue it too closely. I am probably not smart enough to guard against deception. Also, it seems to hint at the old Gnostic heresy that there is secret knowledge, or that God can't be known by little old us. But that directly contradicts Christ's Incarnation, earthly ministry, Passion, Crucifiction, Resurrection, Ascension, and gift of the Holy Paraclete Spirit to us. God himself took earthly flesh and He CAN be known, at least in His energies. 
<2023-05-14T16:28:51.000Z> LawrenceGerald: So I am curious, and am asking you, what is your purpose in your reading of Plotinus, and Proclus after this? This might seem like a really rude or spergy question. 
<2023-05-14T16:29:24.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: All of this started mostly because I actually wanted a proper response to materialism as far as I can recall 
<2023-05-14T16:31:24.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Like I know materialism is wrong, but I wasn’t quite sure how to respond to it 
<2023-05-14T16:32:46.000Z> LawrenceGerald: And I will post a couple of pgs from what I am reading--Unseen Warfare, edited by Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain and revised by Theophan the Recluse.  https://i.poastcdn.org/20ecf39b0d6632400faa720c9a22433914c427eac4a34f9ab4d4f995d6b30142.png
<2023-05-14T16:33:04.000Z> LawrenceGerald attached file https://i.poastcdn.org/15c79d9fe9f22e43054591e17cb23b7647e5e7e9e3315882954b2d6e0082093c.png
<2023-05-14T16:33:31.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Second page, part (a)
<2023-05-14T16:33:35.000Z> LawrenceGerald attached file https://i.poastcdn.org/111abc9509a266d2d1c4c8381676a19fab06f7713268ceb43c917d20d13fe937.png
<2023-05-14T16:33:47.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: A Neo-Platonist would read that and say hell yes 
<2023-05-14T16:33:49.000Z> LawrenceGerald attached file https://i.poastcdn.org/8ec13679253d875ca8e5504a04eac296374eb7451fc964965fffa395be2e41ed.png
<2023-05-14T16:33:55.000Z> LawrenceGerald: these are all from the intro
<2023-05-14T16:35:42.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: My fren
<2023-05-14T16:35:46.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: These pages 
<2023-05-14T16:36:05.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Nearly everything inside these pages I was nodding along 
<2023-05-14T16:37:17.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well ok the more Christian related stuff I don’t know so I can’t say, but the main points I found to be entirely agreeable even as a non-Christian 
<2023-05-14T16:37:27.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: So my hunch is correct 
<2023-05-14T16:38:20.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That Platonism *is* compatible with Christianity, without of course the obviously pagan elements 
<2023-05-14T16:39:22.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Its something I’ve heard but it is good to see it being confirmed 
<2023-05-14T16:39:51.000Z> LawrenceGerald: No, the inmates weren't difficult to handle. It's just that they're so fucked up, and they suffer mentally and emotionally so much and a lot of it they have brought on themselves by their bad lifestyle but also they've had terrible upbringings and were usually victimized as children.
<2023-05-14T16:40:25.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Ouch. I consider myself lucky in this regard.
<2023-05-14T16:41:15.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I am in a 12-step alcohol recovery program--I've been sober for >25 years--and my ministry is to take AA meetings into the prison. Some people so manage to sober up in prison and stay that way when they get out. 
<2023-05-14T16:41:59.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I do this ministry for specifically Christian reasons, but the program I am bringing to them isn't itself Christian.
<2023-05-14T16:43:25.000Z> LawrenceGerald: It's just the combo of being waaaaaaaay over-stimulated and also being bombarded by people. talking, and lots of emotion and suffering often wears me out. I woke up with a migraine this morning and stayed home from church. 
<2023-05-14T16:44:02.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Ahhh ok
<2023-05-14T16:47:10.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I don't personally feel that materialism needs a response. Of course most people are going to think, especially since I am a wamman, that I'm a naive believer of silly fairy tales. 
<2023-05-14T16:48:30.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well I think it useful to at least be able to mount some kind of intellectual defence against it as a way of better protecting myself, its also a way of better rooting myself and being more sure of what I’m say 
<2023-05-14T16:49:20.000Z> LawrenceGerald: It's harder to be a smart dude.
<2023-05-14T16:49:59.000Z> LawrenceGerald: No one expects much of a wamman. 😌
<2023-05-14T16:52:17.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Unseen Warfare is an absolute stone classic of Patristic literature, and well worth acquiring a copy of. I read it years ago, and am getting more out of it now. 
<2023-05-14T16:53:19.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I’ll probably have to get it some day 
<2023-05-14T16:53:31.000Z> LawrenceGerald: It is on archive.org, but I'm building a little library of Orthodox Patristic writing in case archive.org goes down
<2023-05-14T16:54:39.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: As for God being completely unknowable for the Neo-Platonists, ehhhh not so much 
<2023-05-14T16:55:12.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Well, it's a little over my head. 
<2023-05-14T16:55:25.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The Neo-Platonists, I mean. 
<2023-05-14T16:55:27.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Proclus in Proposition 162 says God by itself is ineffable but can still be known through His effects 
<2023-05-14T16:55:55.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The thing is, I am not sure they are talking about the same god. 
<2023-05-14T16:56:55.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: God for the Neo-Platonists can be taken to mean “the necessary first cause of everything in the world” 
<2023-05-14T16:56:57.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I feel this way when I'm talking to a Calvinist protestant, or a Mormon, or even a Roman Catholic. We may not be talking about the same gos
<2023-05-14T16:57:17.000Z> LawrenceGerald: god
<2023-05-14T16:57:27.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I can barely type this morning
<2023-05-14T16:58:29.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: They call it the One or the Good but that is the necessary first condition for the existence of anything at all, why we have beings and not nothing  
<2023-05-14T17:00:14.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Now, is it the exact same God?
<2023-05-14T17:00:28.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Eh, probably not.
<2023-05-14T17:00:33.000Z> LawrenceGerald: What was their time period? Were they influenced by the religion of the jews or Christianity?
<2023-05-14T17:00:49.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: But I don’t think it needs to be to be extremely useful to Christianity 
<2023-05-14T17:01:26.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I know Plotinus lived around 200 AD and was heavily influenced by Plato and Aristotle 
<2023-05-14T17:01:55.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The Greeks were greatly interested in the religions of other cultures. The Bible translation I read now was compiled by Greek scholars--the Septuagint. 
<2023-05-14T17:03:22.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I’ve heard the Septuagint is the legit one and the Masoretic text is heretical 
<2023-05-14T17:04:27.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The Masoretic has ... issues. It was compiled by jews who were quite keen to purge the Old Testament of all the foreshadowing of Christ. 
<2023-05-14T17:04:34.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And by the way, the second last page of that intro of Unseen Warfare that you just shared with me
<2023-05-14T17:05:05.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: You have *no* idea how I’m jumping with joy upon reading that, that author *knows*
<2023-05-14T17:05:41.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The King James is translated from the Masoretic. I read it next to the Septuagint. And as you have seen, I am no scholar, but I am interested in Scripture. 
<2023-05-14T17:06:13.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Hah, I can tell 
<2023-05-14T17:06:43.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Anyway, because I really cannot help myself 
<2023-05-14T17:07:01.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I just have to point out this bit with “infinite ignorance”
<2023-05-14T17:07:11.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The Intro was written by H.A. Hodges, M.A., D.Phil.
<2023-05-14T17:07:38.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: This is very, very similar to Plotinus’ description of the soul of a man who has truly ascended to Nous, or Intellect.
<2023-05-14T17:08:21.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: At that point, the soul simply knows and has no use for memory, so he remembers nothing.
<2023-05-14T17:09:03.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: The soul, being assimilated with Intellect, knows all things and can directly access the true what-nesses of all things with his mind and thus has no use for memory.
<2023-05-14T17:10:16.000Z> LawrenceGerald: There's a reason there are no female philosophers! I mean srsly, I'm pretty sure there are none. But there ARE female saints. Not that I will ever attain to that, but I can emulate their example. 
<2023-05-14T17:10:18.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh, and how Plotinus describes how one reaches and unites with the One.
<2023-05-14T17:11:06.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: He very clearly says that to reunite with the One, you must dispense with even thought, or intellect 
<2023-05-14T17:12:02.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And “a formless contemplation of Him who is without form or mode”
<2023-05-14T17:12:13.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: This is similar to the One!
<2023-05-14T17:13:14.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: The One is without form because it cannot be a form 
<2023-05-14T17:14:31.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: *Everything* depends on the One, so it cannot be a form, if so then that would be a thing that does not depend on the One for substantial existence
<2023-05-14T17:15:28.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: (Ok, time to stop myself now. I probably sound like a mix of an autistic nerd and a lovesick beau.)
<2023-05-14T17:18:25.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Well, Christ *is* the Bridegroom, and we are all lovesick for Him. 😉 
<2023-05-14T17:18:56.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I'll stop here too--time for breakfast (lunch)
<2023-05-14T17:21:10.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: So brunch, ha.
<2023-05-14T17:22:16.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: (And I promised to calm down but man, I still feel remnants of that ecstasy that I felt when I saw what was in the pages.
<2023-05-14T17:33:42.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Later then.
<2023-05-14T22:16:34.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And unrelated but you like cars? I like tanks myself 
<2023-05-14T23:47:29.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh and I’ll just take this chance to leave my argument(s) against materialism here 
<2023-05-14T23:48:19.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: First premise: mind must be able to access reality, or else no one can actually know anything and what this is is no different from nihilism where there is no true knowledge.
<2023-05-14T23:50:31.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Second premise: since mind must be able to access reality, the “structure” or “nature” of reality must have something in common with the mind. It seems quite strange to say that mind can somehow accept or grasp anything that is entirely alien in nature to it.
<2023-05-14T23:51:41.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: So based on these two premises, it can be easily said that reality and mind are intrinsically linked. This is not to say that everything is subjective, but that truly real reality has a mind-like quality to it.
<2023-05-14T23:58:44.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Now a few more.
<2023-05-14T23:59:15.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Thinking seems to be quite different from sense-perception, for one.
<2023-05-15T00:00:37.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: For another, mind seems to start taking over when dealing with things that cannot be directly observable by the senses.
<2023-05-15T00:07:53.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And according to the second premise, mind at least cannot interact with what is alien to it. But incorporeals and corporeals seem very different from each other. Since what mind interacts with in this case is incorporeal, so mind itself should also be incorporeal.
<2023-05-15T00:09:20.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: But if reality is of a mind-like quality and the mind is non-corporeal, what is truly real then cannot be corporeal.
<2023-05-15T00:20:39.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And if anyone thinks to violate the first premise by saying that it isn’t necessarily intuitive that we must be able to access reality and therefore grant that knowledge is possible, I could simply respond by pointing out that I am then free to ignore everything he says on the matter because he himself doesn’t actually know, but only has opinion. Therefore if someone tries to violate the first premise, he gets to “die” together with me.
<2023-05-15T03:09:13.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: In fact, I maintain that one of the dumbest things someone can say is that knowledge or direct access to reality is somehow impossible
<2023-05-15T03:13:04.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I think it takes a special sort of deficiency in self-awareness to say “knowledge/access to reality is impossible” as though this is somehow true 
<2023-05-15T03:14:59.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh and on another note: it might interest you to know that Plotinus disliked the Gnostics 
<2023-05-15T03:21:10.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: To put things into context, Porphyry’s biography of Plotinus suggests that he is a kindly man who rarely if ever loses his temper 
<2023-05-15T03:21:59.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: But then you read his polemic against the Gnostics and in it he writes in a quite scathing manner against the Gnostics 
<2023-05-15T03:49:08.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: He even goes as far as to say that his polemic is not written for devoted Gnostics, basically deeming them to be beyond hope 
<2023-05-16T01:44:07.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I wonder what the Gnostics were, pre-Christ. I didn't know they existed then, but this is very much not my area of knowledge. 
<2023-05-16T01:45:15.000Z> LawrenceGerald: >t takes a special sort of deficiency in self-awareness to say “knowledge/access to reality is impossible”<  I would agree, and yet all of postmodernism, and much of Western society, is based on this idea. 
<2023-05-16T01:47:39.000Z> LawrenceGerald: As I understand it, modernism was the idea that there is a story without a storyteller, some set of facts that is objectively true no matter who is looking at it, from whichever angle. ¡SCIENCE!  
<2023-05-16T01:48:27.000Z> LawrenceGerald: And then postmodernism is the idea that the truth is different for everyone, depending on their point of view, and there's no such thing as *the* truth. 
<2023-05-16T01:52:10.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I like your case against materialism. How does it work in the field? 
<2023-05-16T01:53:41.000Z> LawrenceGerald: As I said, I never argue against materialists, or any other type of atheist or agnostic. I believe they are all like sad children who long for beauty and truth, but fear it doesn't exist. 
<2023-05-16T01:55:12.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I'm finishing editing a book I've already edited and typeset once. The author is re-releasing it. I'm going to work on it. The end part of typesetting always seems to be the hardest. 
<2023-05-16T02:15:48.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >"As I understand it, modernism was the idea that there is a story without a storyteller, some set of facts that is objectively true no matter who is looking at it, from whichever angle. ¡SCIENCE!"< I'm pretty sure modernism is even worse than that, I don't even think modernism recognises that there can even be "some set of facts that is objectively true"
<2023-05-16T02:16:40.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: What that refers to sounds more like value-free fact or empiricism (both of which are retarded as well), the idea that you somehow cannot make objective valuations or judgements
<2023-05-16T02:17:58.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And you pretty much nailed it for postmodernism, although I've heard some argue that postmodernism is simply modernism but on steroids; just see Nietzsche and how he says that truth is what the philosophers deem so
<2023-05-16T02:19:46.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >"I like your case against materialism. How does it work in the field?"< Probably won't be useful against diehard materialists. This probably is meant for those who are still open to logical thinking (something that is lacking in the majority of materialists)
<2023-05-16T02:20:54.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That being said, I find it useful as a sort of foundation and logical basis for my beliefs. I agree with Plotinus that materialists are basically hopeless; I've argued with a few and they're actually really fucking retarded.
<2023-05-16T02:25:11.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: There was one I argued with on Gab who basically ended up ragequitting and telling me to "grow up and read a book" (lmao) because I was picking apart his bad arguments one by one
<2023-05-16T02:28:33.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: He got *really* mad when I told him to produce me a book backing up his materialistic explanation of the mind after he told me to "read a book"
<2023-05-16T02:33:43.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Well, that's blab for you. I hear the chans are the same. I used to enjoy arguing in person but I don't think I do anymore. But you are young, and smart, and seem to have time on your hands, and maybe you don't have many people in your immediate vicinity to strike your mind against. Iron sharpening iron, as they say. 
<2023-05-16T02:34:43.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I think most pagans are actually materialists, and they thing religion is just a set of beliefs but none of it is real. 
<2023-05-16T02:34:48.000Z> LawrenceGerald: think
<2023-05-16T02:35:02.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh yeah, some blab pagans are like that
<2023-05-16T02:35:25.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well, more like many, lol
<2023-05-16T02:35:48.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Well, as I will never stop warning people, the gods they worship ARE real, and are wicked, and hate humanity, and love to lead us to damnation
<2023-05-16T02:35:59.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Now there are truly spiritual pagans that I enjoy reading, Julius Evola being most notable
<2023-05-16T02:36:13.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I keep hearing about this guy
<2023-05-16T02:36:15.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: But many self-proclaimed blab pagans are midwits at best
<2023-05-16T02:36:20.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Hey, I
<2023-05-16T02:36:23.000Z> LawrenceGerald: whoops
<2023-05-16T02:36:37.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I'm a midwit. What are you gonna do? 
<2023-05-16T02:37:30.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I can't make myself any smarter, all I can do is acknowledge my limitations. As I understand, a midwit is between 100-140 IQ. I
<2023-05-16T02:37:45.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: 100-140 is a bit too much of a spread lol
<2023-05-16T02:37:46.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I'm pretty sure most people on the internet fall in that range
<2023-05-16T02:38:09.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Pretty sure when most people have "midwit" in mind, its more like 100-115
<2023-05-16T02:38:44.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And knowing your limitations already makes you better than these blab pagans who lack any kind of self-awareness
<2023-05-16T02:39:07.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Well, I'm sitting at 115, but I acknowledge that I'm just about smart enough to come in out of the rain, as they say in Texas, but not much more
<2023-05-16T02:39:32.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I'm not sure if this helps but I don't imagine myself as being that smart either
<2023-05-16T02:39:34.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I don't really actually NEED to be smarter
<2023-05-16T02:41:11.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I guess I'm not anti-midwit per se if you put it that way, I'm more "anti-midwit who doesn't know what he's talking about but talks as though he's an expert anyway"
<2023-05-16T02:41:32.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I used to work with an entire office of people who were midwits that thought they were geniuses. You had to be somewhat smart to do what we did, but they really truly thought they were some kind of cognitive elite.
<2023-05-16T02:42:03.000Z> LawrenceGerald: They were all leftist degenerates.
<2023-05-16T02:42:29.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That really sums up the leftist/l*beral mentality
<2023-05-16T02:42:35.000Z> LawrenceGerald: yup
<2023-05-16T02:42:39.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: They are not only arrogant, they are arrogant *and* wrong
<2023-05-16T02:42:54.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: A particularly dangerous combination
<2023-05-16T02:43:22.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I understand the mind of the leftist managerial class very very well, after all those years in that environment. 
<2023-05-16T02:43:45.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well I don't, so I'll have to defer to you for actual experience on that matter
<2023-05-16T02:44:38.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Do leftists even exist in Singapore? What are you intending to do for work when you finish school?
<2023-05-16T02:45:48.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Honestly as long as I can stay in Singapore and can get by, I'm good
<2023-05-16T02:46:03.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: No way am I going to work for some international corporation
<2023-05-16T02:47:44.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I support you in that. Modern life is unnatural and inhuman. 
<2023-05-16T02:48:18.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Being a housewife in rural Texas is just my speed. 
<2023-05-16T02:49:05.000Z> LawrenceGerald: And with that, I'm logging off for the evening. Peace be unto you my fren. 
<2023-05-16T02:49:14.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Peace be unto you too!
<2023-05-16T10:18:04.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And I know you're probably either asleep or busy but I'll just leave it here, take your time with what I'm about to say
<2023-05-16T10:19:00.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >"I keep hearing about this guy"< Evola is quite well-known among hardcore right wing types, he is known for being extremely reactionary
<2023-05-16T10:20:29.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: The National Socialists when profiling Evola described him as a Roman aristocrat, which is not far off; he is a huge fan of the ancient Roman religion and is anti-democratic to the extreme
<2023-05-16T10:21:33.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: In fact to him, National Socialism is too "progressive", however he saw in National Socialism an attempt to return to tradition
<2023-05-16T10:23:00.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: He also didn't like Christianity, although I'm not sure if he ever knew much about Eastern Orthodoxy; he mostly talked about Catholicism and Protestantism
<2023-05-16T10:23:40.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: In fact, I owe it to him regarding my decision to not even consider Protestantism
<2023-05-16T10:24:49.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That being said, his personal dislike for Christianity didn't really stop him from working with Christians as long as he saw in them that attempt to restore tradition
<2023-05-16T10:27:18.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: In fact he had nothing but high praise for several explicitly Christian nationalist movements like Codreanu's Iron Guard
<2023-05-16T10:31:36.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Although I must say, while I like Evola and owe a great deal to him, I wonder if he and others like Savitri Devi are reinventing the wheel with their desire to replace Christianity with something else
<2023-05-16T10:33:14.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I also wonder if Evola has confused Gnosticism with Christianity at times
<2023-05-16T10:33:34.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: He seems to think early Christianity is heavily Gnostic in nature
<2023-05-16T10:37:50.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And now...
<2023-05-16T10:38:51.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >"I wonder what the Gnostics were, pre-Christ. I didn't know they existed then, but this is very much not my area of knowledge."< What I'm about to say is also based on how Plotinus described the Gnostics
<2023-05-16T10:39:16.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Basically the Gnostics in Plotinus' time thought that the maker of the world, the demiurge, is evil
<2023-05-16T10:39:49.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: They also think the material world is evil due to its many individual faults; Plotinus explicitly criticises them for this
<2023-05-16T10:46:47.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: The Gnostics also seem to think that divine beings can somehow be bewitched by magical incantations
<2023-05-16T10:47:05.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That sort of thinking he quite consistently criticises
<2023-05-16T10:52:05.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: The Gnostics, according to Plotinus, also thought that the creator of the world did it because she (word used in my translation) wanted to be honoured
<2023-05-16T10:54:11.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Plotinus is also critical of the Gnostics in that they blame the demiurge (the creator of the world) for the various faults in the world and how incompetent he is
<2023-05-16T10:55:36.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: He also really does not like how the Gnostics scorn what Plotinus saw as divine beings and the world while thinking themselves to be capable of being better than divine beings
<2023-05-16T10:57:25.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: The impression I got when reading Plotinus' polemic against the Gnostics is that the Gnostics are basically spiritual communists. In spirit they don't sound that far off from the Jacobin revolutionaries in the aftermath of the French Revolution.
<2023-05-16T10:58:34.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: By "spiritual communist", I also mean someone who has the psychology of a neurotic leftist (although I repeat myself there)
<2023-05-16T11:01:45.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >"Well, that's blab for you. I hear the chans are the same. I used to enjoy arguing in person but I don't think I do anymore. But you are young, and smart, and seem to have time on your hands, and maybe you don't have many people in your immediate vicinity to strike your mind against. Iron sharpening iron, as they say."< I don't argue much in person too, I am quite quiet IRL. And honestly I get why people don't like to argue that much. After a while, you just get a bad taste in the mouth because of constant exposure to arrogant retards.
<2023-05-16T11:02:30.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I can safely say its not that good for my mental well-being too
<2023-05-16T11:03:18.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Which is also why I try not to do it that much these days, although if someone opens fire first, I'm not backing down
<2023-05-16T11:05:09.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >"Do leftists even exist in Singapore?"< I'll need to be honest here, relative to other Asians, we are fairly l*beral. South Korea I'm pretty sure is worse though.
<2023-05-16T11:07:26.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Bear in mind that we are fairly l*beral *relative to other Asians*. So we are still generally more conservatively minded than say the majority of Americans.
<2023-05-16T11:08:03.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: By l*beral I meant more in the cultural aspect, not so much politically
<2023-05-16T11:10:16.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That being said, it's not that bad here even in the cultural aspect, although as someone who is of a different frame of mind like myself... it could stand to be more reactionary.
<2023-05-16T12:54:26.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And on the bright side, I haven't been doxxed or thrown into jail for buying and reading the wrong books, lol. I don't even tell my parents what books I buy and read; they only know I buy quite a number.
<2023-05-16T20:46:11.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh and yes, these books include some clearly anti-Semitic literature as well as Holohoax “revisionism”.
<2023-05-16T22:54:00.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh and one notable thing (to me, anyway; I’ll explain why in a bit) Plotinus criticises the Gnostics for is how they made a “hard” distinction between the knower and the known, as though what is known is something that is separate from the knower.
<2023-05-16T22:54:16.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >BEGIN SPERGING
<2023-05-16T22:55:06.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: So to Plotinus, while there must be a “real” distinction between the knower and the known, the two cannot be separated from each other and are intricately linked.
<2023-05-16T22:56:09.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: The knower and the known must at least share something in common, or else the knower cannot possibly truly know what is known.
<2023-05-16T22:58:27.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Saying the knower and the known are separate from each other is to say that the knower cannot actually know the known. The knower in this case, to Plotinus anyway, could only have an opinion of “what is known”.
<2023-05-16T23:00:46.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: The former means the mind can directly access thought-content and true reality. The latter however means the mind cannot directly access true reality and thought-content because in the latter, the mind cannot “see” the thought-content itself (like in the former), but can only see an image or “ghost” of the thought-content.
<2023-05-16T23:04:43.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: In not so many words, recall my second premise for my argument against materialism, where basically mind = reality. With what the Gnostics are doing, they are violating this mind = reality rule.
<2023-05-16T23:05:14.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >END SPERGING
<2023-05-17T01:16:43.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And speaking of my more reactionary tendencies, I guess I sort of got that from my parents, although it sort of seems absent from my brother
<2023-05-17T01:21:19.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: My mum was a Chinese national who moved to Singapore, she came from a village and grew up as a peasant
<2023-05-17T01:24:14.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Both till today can't really speak English very well, especially my mum. Both also aren't particularly well-educated and are solidly working-class, although they did work hard and because of this I had a pretty decent life.
<2023-05-17T01:39:27.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That is also why I make quite a big deal out of at least graduating from university for myself. I don't care about the education myself but I do care that my parents worked hard to pay for it and expect me to graduate.
<2023-05-17T02:06:56.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Honestly I can’t say I blame them for really wanting me to get a university education. My parents are not very well-educated and so could not possibly have the kind of thinking that I do regarding universities. They think that better education = better job = better life. 
<2023-05-17T12:56:55.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And sorry for piling on but I gotta ask: how does Orthodoxy view evil? More specifically, is evil defined as the privation of good? In other words, is evil merely a lack of something?
<2023-05-17T13:52:36.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Your mother is probably my age (mid-50s)
<2023-05-17T13:55:21.000Z> LawrenceGerald: But about evil in Orthodoxy: the story starts in Genesis. At least, our part of the story. I keep talking about the fallen spirits the pagans worship as gods. They are what is referred to throughout Scripture and also in other ancient literature as the bodiless powers. They do have bodies, but they are spiritual bodies, not made of the earth as ours are. 
<2023-05-17T13:55:58.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I really hope I'm getting this right, since I'm going off memory.
<2023-05-17T13:57:51.000Z> LawrenceGerald: God created them and gave them powers to order and maintain the universe. A lot of what we know of them comes from the Book of Enoch, which is not part of the canon of Scripture, but was quoted by Christ and Paul in the New Testament and its authenticity is not doubted. 
<2023-05-17T13:59:58.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The Book of Enoch is a supplement to Holy Scripture and doesn't supersede it. 
<2023-05-17T14:00:19.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And what happened to these spirits?
<2023-05-17T14:00:28.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh btw, you guessed my mum’s age right 
<2023-05-17T14:01:43.000Z> LawrenceGerald: >my mum’s age -- just so you know what you're dealing with here. I have great sympathy for zoomers though I have no children myself and I consider it my job to encourage y'all and be kind to you.
<2023-05-17T14:02:33.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Anyway, don't get too fixated on exact chronology here in this story of bodiless powers, man, and war in heaven, k?
<2023-05-17T14:03:48.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Some of those spirits rebelled against God. 
<2023-05-17T14:04:28.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: So may I then guess that evil is introduced when these spirits rebelled?
<2023-05-17T14:05:44.000Z> LawrenceGerald: It is also important to understand WHY God created the earth (which includes the known universe) and why created man and what purpose he intended us to fulfill here. This is a huge story. It might take me a little time to condense it down.
<2023-05-17T14:06:16.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh sure, I have time
<2023-05-17T14:07:08.000Z> LawrenceGerald: He made us out of earth and breathed a spirit into us and we thereby BECAME souls. Body and soul were never intended to be separate. The body isn't just a meat suit to carry around the soul. 
<2023-05-17T14:07:24.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Souls don't pre-exist their bodies. 
<2023-05-17T14:07:39.000Z> LawrenceGerald: We were created immortal. 
<2023-05-17T14:10:23.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: So in other words, souls are meant for certain bodies and it is not accidental that souls end up in specific bodies?
<2023-05-17T14:10:47.000Z> LawrenceGerald: God created us to reign over and populate the earth. He had Adam, the first-created man, name all the animals. When he saw Adam was alone, he decided it was not good, and he more or less divided him in two to create Eve, the first woman. The word "rib" apparently actually referred to the whole side, like when people refer to their wives as "my better half."
<2023-05-17T14:12:06.000Z> LawrenceGerald: None of it is accidental. God knows how many hairs are on each of our heads, and he sees the fall of every sparrow. He causes or permits absolutely everything in the universe. 
<2023-05-17T14:12:26.000Z> LawrenceGerald: See, this is a complex story. I'll get to what is meant by "permit" later
<2023-05-17T14:13:29.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: (Oh btw, thanks for the kindness. I must say, I and my brother are relatively lucky; I’ve heard some stories about some other families and they aren’t pretty.)
<2023-05-17T14:14:20.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Adam and Eve were naked and innocent in the paradisiacal garden God created for them. They did not have sex, and we don't know how God originally intended for them to reproduce.
<2023-05-17T14:14:29.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: (My mum knows how to cook and actually bothers to cook for us when time permits - usually dinner time because she has to work during the day. Life here can get expensive.)
<2023-05-17T14:14:33.000Z> LawrenceGerald: This all comes from Genesis, I tell you. 
<2023-05-17T14:15:07.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Oh, and I'm kind because we see how God-awful boomers are to the young, who are facing pressures we never had to face.
<2023-05-17T14:15:53.000Z> LawrenceGerald: My parents were silent generation, and have passed away, but my husband's parents are pretty typical boomers and are both still alive. 
<2023-05-17T14:16:43.000Z> LawrenceGerald: His parents at least help their children financially and emotionally when they need it and they've been wonderfully kind to me.
<2023-05-17T14:18:51.000Z> LawrenceGerald: We grew up in a freer, cleaner, and nicer world than you did, and I'm sorry y'all have to try to live in this mess. 
<2023-05-17T14:23:25.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Back to the story. Adam and Eve had everything provided for them in the garden and existed in a state of communion with God. They saw him, and talked with him, and had direct fellowship with him the way you and I would (if we were in the same room). But God commanded that they not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Here is where I really hope I remember correctly and am presenting things accurately. It is believed that God planned for Adam and Eve (and thus all mankind) to eventually have this knowledge, but only after we had developed spiritually enough to use it responsibly. 
<2023-05-17T14:24:17.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I'm-a make a cup of coffee
<2023-05-17T14:50:26.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The aspect of the story that man had direct fellowship with God is important. God was not withdrawn and remote as he is now. God didn't withdraw his presence from us until later. 
<2023-05-17T14:51:21.000Z> LawrenceGerald: So, some of these rebellious spirits were envious that God created man to rule the earth.
<2023-05-17T14:52:11.000Z> LawrenceGerald: They, having been given powers to administer various aspects of natural functioning, thought they should rule. 
<2023-05-17T14:52:55.000Z> LawrenceGerald: At this point we have to address symbolism, fundamentalism, and literalism.
<2023-05-17T14:54:54.000Z> LawrenceGerald: At the time Genesis was written, men (all of us) understood things symbolically, as stories. The very precise legalistic literal reading of things is a fairly recent invention, and is thoroughly Modern, and purely of the West. 
<2023-05-17T14:56:08.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Bear this in mind, and engage this story, which is the story of all of us, as a wise child. 
<2023-05-17T15:05:21.000Z> LawrenceGerald: So one of these spirits, these bodiless powers, the one we Orthodox refer to as the enemy or the adversary, came to Eve. God had told Adam and Eve that if they ate of the fruit of the tree, they would die. The adversary told Eve that if she ate from it her eyes would be opened and she would be as a god, knowing good and evil. He insinuated that God wished to keep man weak and ignorant, putting doubt and enmity between man and God, and appealing to Eve's pride and vainglory. 
<2023-05-17T15:07:54.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: (I’m listening intently, btw)
<2023-05-17T15:08:23.000Z> LawrenceGerald: So she ate of it, and gave it to her husband and he ate it as well, and then they knew they were naked. The very first consequence of their disobedience to God is that shame entered into them, and the world. They were ashamed of their nakedness and felt the need to cover themselves. All this is important and figures in to how God, through Christ, means to save us. 
<2023-05-17T15:09:33.000Z> LawrenceGerald: It only recently became clear to me how intense this is--the being ashamed of yourself and your own weakness and insufficiency and they desperate desire to cover and hide this vulnerability. 
<2023-05-17T15:12:38.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Then God came walking in the garden to see them and be with them, as was his custom, and they were ashamed and afraid and hid from God. 
<2023-05-17T15:16:09.000Z> LawrenceGerald: And God called them. He said "Adam, where are you?" This is important too. God calls us. He seeks us. He comes after us, he loves us. Later, in his love for us, he sent his only begotten Son to us as the means for our salvation. Jumping WAY ahead in the story, God never desires the death of a sinner, but instead longs for us to turn from sin, repent, and return to unity with him. This understanding is only present in the Orthodox Church. The Romans see it slightly, but very significantly, differently, and the protestants are all over the map in their misunderstanding of this. 
<2023-05-17T15:20:21.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Adam told God that he had hidden because he was afraid because he was naked. Bu this God knew they had eaten the "forbidden fruit," and queried Adam about it. Adam said, "the woman you gave me, gave me of the tree and I ate." So that's the third thing that happened as the result of their disobedience: Instead of repenting and asking God to forgive him, Adam blamed Eve. All the trouble between man and woman stems from this moment. 
<2023-05-17T15:21:16.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh so this is the beginning of the Fall of Man that I hear about?
<2023-05-17T15:22:14.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Just one quick question: you mentioned that man, at least at the beginning, was meant to be immortal? So can I assume that men’s bodies were originally meant to be immortal as well?
<2023-05-17T15:22:30.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Yes, this is the beginning of it. It's Chapter 3 of Genesis, which is short if you want to read it. The New King James version is a solid translation. 
<2023-05-17T15:22:48.000Z> LawrenceGerald: YES OUR BODIES WERE MEANT TO BE IMMORTAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<2023-05-17T15:23:03.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Ok, phew
<2023-05-17T15:23:17.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That clears up some nagging concerns I have, the system is then coherent 
<2023-05-17T15:23:18.000Z> LawrenceGerald: We WERE NOT created to die
<2023-05-17T15:24:12.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Makes sense, a soul is immortal and is meant for a specific body 
<2023-05-17T15:24:39.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The Orthodox understanding (as I understand it) is that death is actually God's mercy. If we, once we had sinned and fallen from God's grace, continued to be immortal, we would be monsters. 
<2023-05-17T15:24:40.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Put two and two together and I can see why man’s body is originally supposed to be immortal 
<2023-05-17T15:26:23.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Can you believe the protestants don't know any of this? Like, that's so weird. If you talk to them about it (srsly don't) they will just spout their own individual opinion on Genesis which have been greatly influenced by Milton, Dante, and the many jewish perversions thereof.
<2023-05-17T15:28:24.000Z> LawrenceGerald: So God cursed the serpent. Part of that curse was that the seed of Eve would bruise his head under her heel. Christ was that seed, because his humanity came from Mary. 
<2023-05-17T15:29:51.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: (Oh and btw, the reason I asked is because of my Platonic background, I understand that generally anything that is corporeal is perishable and mortal. This includes human bodies. However, the Platonists did make certain exceptions like for the celestial bodies and the whole universe itself so this idea of an immortal body is by itself not really that absurd.)
<2023-05-17T15:30:27.000Z> LawrenceGerald: God cursed woman that she would bring forth children with pain, and that she would desire to do it because her desire and recourse would be her husband. And thus we have the nature of wamman, that we desire husbands and babies despite everything. 
<2023-05-17T15:32:40.000Z> LawrenceGerald: And God cursed man that he would have to work and sweat and toil in order to eat, where before God had provided everything for them. And he cursed them to die. And all of this, Eve's and Adam's curse, were for our salvation. Women find their salvation in part by marriage and motherhood, and men by working to feed themselves and their families. 
<2023-05-17T15:33:52.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The story goes on and on. Because that was the introduction of death to the world, and the fall from God's grace (which means God's power). But the first sin was committed by Cain when he murdered his brother. 
<2023-05-17T15:35:59.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Would the introduction of death be sort of an introduction to evil? Or does this more belong to sin?
<2023-05-17T15:36:06.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Cain's descendants were the ones who founded cities (rather than the gardens we were created to live in) and they created technology and weapons. Just as the devil persuaded Eve to partake of knowledge man was not mature enough to use, the fallen spirits gave technology to Cain's descendents. 
<2023-05-17T15:36:34.000Z> LawrenceGerald: As I understand, death itself isn't evil. 
<2023-05-17T15:36:34.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: *sweats nervously at how I like tanks*
<2023-05-17T15:39:34.000Z> LawrenceGerald: These fallen spirits are the bodiless powers who accepted the worship of men instead of directing the worship to the Creator of all. And they gave technological knowledge to Cain's descendants knowing they would use it to kill each other. I bear this in mind when I look at how we have used pretty much all technological innovation. We pretty much always only use it to hurt each other and ourselves, because we aren't spiritually mature enough to have it.
<2023-05-17T15:40:46.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Because the fallen spirits hate us, they do everything God allows to hurt us, and deceive us, and turn us away from him. 
<2023-05-17T15:42:50.000Z> LawrenceGerald: These spirits are the "gods" worshipped by pagans, MOST SIGNIFICANTLY the Greeks. I used to love to read Greek mythology as a child. The stories are endlessly fascinating. I had no idea until I became Orthodox that the major and minor gods of the pantheon were real actual bodiless powers, created by God, who were in rebellion against him. 
<2023-05-17T15:44:45.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Ahh, no wonder you were so concerned about my fascination over Greek philosophy 
<2023-05-17T15:45:11.000Z> LawrenceGerald: This is why I don't read any Greek philosophy. The Greeks were extremely advanced intellectually, certainly more than we are today in the West. But they were turned away from the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob (this being before Christ).
<2023-05-17T15:45:42.000Z> LawrenceGerald: And they got some of their knowledge from these wicked spirits. So be careful mein fren. 
<2023-05-17T15:46:20.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The enemy wants nothing more than to turn man away from God, and it's always easy to sell to our pride and vainglory. 
<2023-05-17T15:48:14.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I do understand your concern honestly 
<2023-05-17T15:48:34.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Too often I see people use it as something to replace religion with 
<2023-05-17T15:48:38.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Oh, I am concerned.
<2023-05-17T15:49:25.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I’ve however become increasingly concerned that the two really should not be at odds with other, and generally kind of atheistic philosophy is bad 
<2023-05-17T15:49:34.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: *convinced, not concerned 
<2023-05-17T15:49:52.000Z> LawrenceGerald: It seems that maybe God wants me to witness to you His Truth. Once I have done that, what you do with it is up to you, and don't forget that you are immortal. 
<2023-05-17T15:50:58.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I wouldn’t mind admitting that Greek philosophy is not all good 
<2023-05-17T15:51:19.000Z> LawrenceGerald: While you are alive, in the body God gave you at your creation, you have the opportunity to repent and turn toward him. After death, you can no longer repent, but your soul will still be alive and inclined to the sins it committed while it was in your body. 
<2023-05-17T15:51:24.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: From what I’ve heard about the Epicureans and their hedonism, I basically want nothing to do with them 
<2023-05-17T15:52:44.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Studying philosophy and acquiring knowledge is fine. But our sinful nature seems to always try to use that knowledge to set ourselves up as gods. 
<2023-05-17T15:53:57.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Believe it or not, I have only told you the tiniest portion of the story. But I have to sign off and go run errands. Peace be unto you, dear fren ☦️.
<2023-05-17T15:54:16.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Peace be unto you too!
<2023-05-17T23:05:21.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >"But God commanded that they not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Here is where I really hope I remember correctly and am presenting things accurately. It is believed that God planned for Adam and Eve (and thus all mankind) to eventually have this knowledge, but only after we had developed spiritually enough to use it responsibly."<Makes sense. If God is the source of good-ness, it makes little sense to say that He withheld such knowledge out of maliciousness. 
<2023-05-17T23:11:04.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >"At the time Genesis was written, men (all of us) understood things symbolically, as stories. The very precise legalistic literal reading of things is a fairly recent invention, and is thoroughly Modern, and purely of the West."<I was always under the impression that such texts cannot be read fully literally. If I'm going to guess, this highly literal reading is also a product of modernity where "symbolism" is probably regarded as a form of interpretation and is therefore "subjective" and not therefore "objectively true" as we understand it. 
<2023-05-17T23:15:32.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >"So one of these spirits, these bodiless powers, the one we Orthodox refer to as the enemy or the adversary, came to Eve. God had told Adam and Eve that if they ate of the fruit of the tree, they would die. The adversary told Eve that if she ate from it her eyes would be opened and she would be as a god, knowing good and evil. He insinuated that God wished to keep man weak and ignorant, putting doubt and enmity between man and God, and appealing to Eve's pride and vainglory."<Probably lamenting over spilled milk, but foolish Eve. Knowledge alone does not make you a god.
<2023-05-17T23:17:02.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: To truly be a god, you need to have the will and governing power of one. Having knowledge does not make one a god.
<2023-05-17T23:17:15.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh and of course the needed virtue.
<2023-05-17T23:26:31.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >"None of it is accidental. God knows how many hairs are on each of our heads, and he sees the fall of every sparrow. He causes or permits absolutely everything in the universe."<>"God was not withdrawn and remote as he is now. God didn't withdraw his presence from us until later."<I think it was that neofugue guy who said that to Orthodoxy, God is active throughout the entire universe and is not merely a distant first cause. Which I agree with; if God causes everything and is more perfect than man, it makes little sense to deny to God that which is not denied to man. I mean a father is already lord over his own child and a king is lord over his subjects so why should this not be extended to God and His creation?
<2023-05-17T23:32:21.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >"Can you believe the protestants don't know any of this? Like, that's so weird. If you talk to them about it (srsly don't) they will just spout their own individual opinion on Genesis which have been greatly influenced by Milton, Dante, and the many jewish perversions thereof."<Oh, I would love to hear examples. 
<2023-05-17T23:35:46.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I had a feeling I was wading into waters waaaaaaaaay over my head, trying to tell you all this. This article, which I stumbled upon without trying today, might be of value to you: orthodoxriver.org/posts/the-immortality-of-the-soul/ 
<2023-05-17T23:37:45.000Z> LawrenceGerald: To tell the truth, though, one of the best ways to know and understand theology is to pray and to attend Liturgy. All the hymns of the Church teach history and theology, and by paying attention one absorbs quite a lot. And it goes into the mind via song and incense smoke and standing and crossing oneself and making prostrations--it's a different kind of learning than reading. 
<2023-05-17T23:40:30.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Indeed, foolish Eve. But where Eve said no to God, Mary said yes, of her own free will (the Annunciation story). She could have said no. God doesn't force us to do anything, ever. He would have found another way to effect our salvation than for Christ to be born of Mary. But she did say yes! She said the beautiful Magnificat prayer "My soul doth magnify the Lord ... "  
<2023-05-17T23:43:23.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Regarding your article, I haven't read everything but there are some valid objections regarding immortality of the soul
<2023-05-17T23:43:53.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: The soul is something that exists in time so it is not entirely inconceivable that it can be mortal
<2023-05-17T23:45:46.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: In defence of the Platonists, they unlike the Gnostics do not say that the soul is incorruptible; they however say that the soul is in between the divine (intelligible realm) and the sensible realm.
<2023-05-17T23:46:39.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And the soul can either ascend (to what some might call Heaven) or descend (to what some might call Hell).
<2023-05-17T23:48:05.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Also: I must say I agree with Athanasius. The soul is not Life itself; this is something that would be entirely uncontroversial to Neo-Platonists like Proclus.
<2023-05-18T00:11:35.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I actually strongly disagree with Reade: what he just described is not really even a proper summary of Plotinus. This has the implication that Plotinus hates the material world which was never his intention. He is more saying that the body tends to get in the way of the soul, which is probably also a product of his... sub-optimal health.
<2023-05-18T00:34:21.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Read the whole thing
<2023-05-18T00:39:39.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I think a lot of this has to do with how Christians view the origins of man.
<2023-05-18T00:41:15.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: You see, the Platonists don't think, or at least don't even talk much about the origins of man. I don't think they ever said that man was originally made immortal.
<2023-05-18T00:41:31.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Hence the quite different views on death.
<2023-05-18T00:42:26.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: For if man was not originally immortal, death cannot be regarded as unnatural as what your link implies.
<2023-05-18T01:16:28.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That being said, I look forward to what Athanasius has to say.
<2023-05-18T01:43:25.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Despite what the author of that article says, I still remain hopeful that Platonism can be made compatible with Christianity. Obviously there will be significant differences in cosmology but from that other text you’ve given me and that book neofugue introduced me to, I still remain hopeful
<2023-05-18T01:54:26.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Call me a hopeless optimist if you want but at least that’s what I currently believe. Maybe I’m being young and stupid.
<2023-05-18T02:53:03.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Also: the reason why I didn't say anything regarding being kind to zoomers like myself is mostly because I simply didn't know how to appropriately respond. So after thinking for a while, I can only say thank you from the bottom of my heart and that I'm touched by that gesture.
<2023-05-18T13:42:03.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Anyway, how is inflation really like over there? I have heard that it is really bad in America right now although you live in rural Texas so you might not be affected as much. Inflation is not great over here and the effects are pretty obvious.
<2023-05-18T15:01:24.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Inflation is killing us; husband makes good money, but everything costs 30%-50% more than it did 2 years ago and we are struggling.
<2023-05-18T15:05:21.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Here is a picture of a snek that took up residence in the rock wall of my yard. Sadly, he had to be killed. He/it wasn't poisonous, but they eat chicken eggs and sometimes strangle chickens and could also bite my dogs and cause an infection and to top it all off, one of my dogs is a very fierce protector and she was pretty obsessed with this guy. So we killed him.  https://i.poastcdn.org/146b88d86952ea0c339edb677d2d25368275f90a45bc3fbee8832505119f0df2.png
<2023-05-18T18:54:36.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >everything costs 30-50% more
<2023-05-18T18:54:47.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Shit, that is bad 
<2023-05-18T18:56:49.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Its pretty bad here but I don’t think I’ve seen a 50% price increase here
<2023-05-18T19:02:45.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: 30% I’ve seen before though, that being said. Still very bad though.
<2023-05-18T19:17:10.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Regarding killing of snek, so I can assume snek was really causing enough problems regarding those chickens of yours?
<2023-05-18T20:01:42.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Sneks eat mice and rats, which are attracted by the chicken feed, which is a good thing. Mice and rats will kill baby chicks. But then sneks themselves eat eggs, baby chicks, and even half-grown chickens. Some are poisonous. It doesn't make sense to the sneks, but I have a perimeter. There's my yard, and the henyard next to it, and no varmints are allowed inside this perimeter. The chickens free-range on the rest of my property, which is outside this perimeter. Sneks are allowed to be there unmolested, but coyotes and foxes and mountain lions are not allowed. I should add that all this is fenced fairly securely. At the edge of my land, outside the fence, is a creek, where every kind of wildlife hangs out, and that's ok. But I'm defending my chickens and dogs, and goats if we decide to get some. 
<2023-05-18T21:48:15.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Damn, that sounds like a fair bit of space
<2023-05-18T21:48:27.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Totally unlike what we have over here
<2023-05-18T21:48:46.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Yes, I live in an apartment
<2023-05-18T22:05:42.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: On one hand I get it, there isn’t much space and grandfather (directly translated to English, this is what us Singaporeans sometimes call the government) has to provide housing for everyone 
<2023-05-18T22:06:36.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Or I should say “grandpa” to highlight the less formal nature of such a nickname 
<2023-05-18T22:09:52.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And yeah, the government does make it easier to at least get basic housing, especially for married couples because our birth rate is astronomically bad
<2023-05-18T22:12:00.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: But on the other hand, it must be nice having the space that you do, you probably also get to enjoy some quiet 
<2023-05-18T22:14:38.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh and I should also say that technically, we don’t actually buy apartment units, as in we buy and then we own them forever 
<2023-05-18T22:16:14.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Grandpa (government) actually leases to us the units for 99 years
<2023-05-18T22:23:26.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: The other good thing is that the government tries to keep the property market under control, especially for public housing like said apartment units 
<2023-05-18T22:24:49.000Z> LawrenceGerald: We only have a few acres, but beyond us it's all large farms and ranches. Not exactly the open land you can see in West Texas (so, so, so beautiful) but it's quiet and I can see the Milky Way from my backyard. The air quality is good and it smells sweet, unlike in the city. Cities in Texas are big and sprawling with freeways and cars everywhere. Not as dense and vertical as someplace like New York, or in Europe. But the stress of driving *really* decreases the quality of life. People are cold and angry and hostile behind the wheel. It didn't used to be like this in Texas, because our population wasn't so dense and it was composed of English-descended settlers who were of good quality. Of course there was slavery, mostly in East Texas, so we have a large black population, and there were always Mexicans, but we were able to keep them under control.
<2023-05-18T22:24:51.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: There are a fair number of restrictions that make it clear that you purchase (or “purchase”) such apartment units for the express intention of having a roof over your head, not for any kind of speculative investment.
<2023-05-18T22:25:41.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I've never heard of housing regulations like that and it seems sensible. How jewed is it over there?
<2023-05-18T22:26:49.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I'll bet niggers don't nig in Singapore
<2023-05-18T22:26:56.000Z> LawrenceGerald: jelly
<2023-05-18T22:27:01.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh niggers wouldn’t dare 
<2023-05-18T22:27:16.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: If they do the government simply applies the law. Lol. Lmao.
<2023-05-18T22:27:22.000Z> LawrenceGerald: heh
<2023-05-18T22:27:49.000Z> LawrenceGerald: blegs mostly behave themselves out here, where whites are still the majority
<2023-05-18T22:28:05.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: As for jews, honestly its not a key focus for us there so its like we’re ambivalent 
<2023-05-18T22:29:02.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Ofc the whites out here are brandontards who simply refuse to acknowledge that America has been taken over by jews and is dead
<2023-05-18T22:31:35.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh and having a few acres would be a lot more than what I have, lol. And we don’t get to see many of the stars at night because of all the lights; it is a city after all.
<2023-05-18T22:36:04.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I just hope it doesn’t become like South Africa over there, I’d be worried 
<2023-05-18T22:37:15.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: “Brandontards” wait, there still are people who regard Joe Biden as legitimate or something?
<2023-05-18T23:10:10.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Yes. Even young people. They’re really NPCs, but it’s hard to hate them. They’re my people: kind, decent, law-abiding, dutiful, and God-fearing (if protestant).
<2023-05-18T23:12:13.000Z> LawrenceGerald: There are too many heritage American whites for it to be S Africa. It will be its own kind of hell. I really don’t know what the future holds. 
<2023-05-18T23:37:22.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I need to not be with so many eternally online “White nationalists”
<2023-05-18T23:55:06.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: As I said previously, I can honestly feel my soul dying a bit when I argue with too many people, especially on blab 
<2023-05-18T23:55:16.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Like I lash out more 
<2023-05-19T01:06:44.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I’ve heard someone say that during education, one should be exposed to good things rather than bad things. Being exposed to bad things is important but you can’t do it too much or else the bad things start to rub off on you.
<2023-05-19T01:07:29.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: My time on Gab has merely reinforced the truth of this statement
<2023-05-19T01:26:43.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer attached file https://i.poastcdn.org/9520c71fb3a358c5ddf7cd185699c21c7eb52f613239be738aea1f0da1e7ae07.jpeg
<2023-05-19T01:26:53.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer attached file https://i.poastcdn.org/b35e1cf9029e7ab49a5ee28bac8a173034fc57e784375c6158e5d5931179d1bd.jpeg
<2023-05-19T01:27:00.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: *sigh*
<2023-05-19T01:27:36.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: On one hand, this sentiment isn’t un-understandable
<2023-05-19T01:28:38.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: On the other, I can’t help but feel at least somewhat offended and attacked at obvious falsehoods if I’m going to be truly honest with myself.
<2023-05-19T01:33:37.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Now I don’t know how Asian-Americans are like over there 
<2023-05-19T01:33:57.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: In all likelihood they probably behave at least somewhat differently 
<2023-05-19T02:48:01.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Any direct experience with Asian-Americans on your side besides your work with a predominantly Chinese firm? 
<2023-05-19T02:50:34.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Or are those also all Asian-Americans? If that’s the case then I sort of wasted your time asking you that question, lol.
<2023-05-19T02:54:50.000Z> LawrenceGerald: ngl, I mostly see Asians at Costco. If you didn’t already know this, it’s a membership-based warehouse-type store chain that’s located in upper middle class areas
<2023-05-19T02:55:24.000Z> LawrenceGerald: You recall that I have a touch of autism
<2023-05-19T02:55:58.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh, yes. Don’t worry, I think I’m at least somewhat aneurotypical. So you are at least in similar company, lol.
<2023-05-19T02:57:52.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Of all non-whites, fancy Asians—Chinese, Japanese, Korean—are the best. They give almost no trouble. What Wafflechaser posted was pretty angry and dark. Was he posting directly at you?
<2023-05-19T02:58:08.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: In fairness, no 
<2023-05-19T02:58:27.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: But I did see the poast and can’t help but feel at least somewhat offended.
<2023-05-19T02:59:57.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I would be lying to myself if I said I’m somehow not offended in at least some way when he seems to be writing about all Asians in that poast.
<2023-05-19T03:01:34.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Also not gonna lie. My country has been taken over by people who hate me and mine. There is no reason for large numbers of Asians to be here. One thing they do—mostly Vietnamese but have seen Koreans do it too—is illegally bring over other Asians who speak no English and keep them basically in slavery. 
<2023-05-19T03:06:47.000Z> LawrenceGerald: They make them work crazy long hours and live at the workplace. The entire nail salon industry is based on this kind of illegal indentured servitude. Cops and immigration police look the other way. There’s a lot of crossover into prostitution with “massage parlors” and this all is happening all over the country, in very nice formerly all white old neighborhoods. It’s even happening way out here in the sticks. Seriously. Open slavery and prostitution is just tolerated now. Asians have a vastly different value system than we do—you can weigh in and correct me—they don’t see it the same as we do. But it’s this kind of thing that is eroding everything that was good about life here.
<2023-05-19T03:08:29.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh yeah agreed, no way these Asians should be over there, like at all 
<2023-05-19T03:08:51.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That’s also why I said I sort of understand why wafflechaser is this angry 
<2023-05-19T03:09:33.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: But shit, open prostitution? Shut that shit down and send them all back to where they came from, I have exactly zero objection to this 
<2023-05-19T03:10:47.000Z> LawrenceGerald: So on the one hand, Asians are not a problem, but on the other hand, actually they are. We’re talking groups and numbers here, not you, my feen. If it were only Asians being brought here to utterly change our way of life, but it isn’t. It’s literally everyone on earth. Texas has gotten less white during my lifetime. And, you know, I *am* a big ole racist. I prefer my people. I want Texas to be only for Texans. 
<2023-05-19T03:14:44.000Z> LawrenceGerald: So, but blab can be such an ugly place. I’ve taken a couple of lengthy breaks from it. Over here I only know a few ppl but it’s not as based on acting like a tough guy. 
<2023-05-19T03:16:46.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh yeah speaking of crossovers between massage palours and whorehouses, that’s actually like a stereotype over here 
<2023-05-19T03:17:36.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Like my parents, especially my mum, would warn me about those sort of places. They are of course illegal but that also doesn’t mean some wouldn’t dare do it… until cops raid the establishment that is.
<2023-05-19T03:19:40.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And honestly, I get being pissed at the place you formerly call your home being changed into something it isn’t, and nearly always for the worse
<2023-05-19T03:29:19.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: As for blab being an ugly place, yeah, I can only agree tbh 
<2023-05-19T03:29:55.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: It’s probably why I can be so vicious on Gab
<2023-05-19T03:52:58.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Everyone seems to be vicious on blab. I enjoyed your shitpoasting, but be careful what you allow into your mind and heart and soul. Make no mistake, it is sinful, and it will stick with you.
<2023-05-19T04:02:16.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I try to be careful, although whether I am wholly successful I have no confidence to say 
<2023-05-19T04:02:20.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I just hope that I am 
<2023-05-19T10:51:37.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Actually if you don’t mind me asking, how were your days in university like, if you can recall?
<2023-05-19T13:09:11.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Such a nice young man, asking about my college days. 
<2023-05-19T13:13:04.000Z> LawrenceGerald: In general, women have no place in universities. We simply have no need for that much education, and all it ever results in is trouble. I come from a background of some privilege, and my family helped found several universities as we moved west from Connecticut, where we landed in the 1600s. So, in my family women went to college to meet a husband of similar background and social station. I guess this sort of worked out for a while.
<2023-05-19T13:15:07.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Perhaps you recall my telling you that I am in a 12-step recovery program. I started drinking in my early teens, which was the early 80s. The boomer hippie social revolution had completely taken hold by then and it was sort of normal for teenagers to seek chemical oblivion. 
<2023-05-19T13:16:04.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: My mum would’ve killed me if I dared to even take alcohol during my adolescent age
<2023-05-19T13:16:36.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Even when we are of age, she still doesn’t really approve of it 
<2023-05-19T13:16:54.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I went to college in that frame of mind. I had autism, though at the time no one knew how to diagnose girls with no language problems. I was a terrible social misfit, but I was tall and very thin and pretty and alcohol allowed me to overcome my awkwardness.
<2023-05-19T13:17:19.000Z> LawrenceGerald: My parents were both alcoholics.
<2023-05-19T13:18:49.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I think I also told you I was raised pretty traditionally, with old-fashioned values (even though my folks were drunks, they tried to be moral Christian people). 
<2023-05-19T13:19:02.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh yeah you did
<2023-05-19T13:19:41.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I quickly found out that at college, if I wanted to fit in, which I desperately did, I had to renounce all that and become a shitlib. 
<2023-05-19T13:20:15.000Z> LawrenceGerald: But I have autism! So the pretense was never convincing, especially not to me internally. 
<2023-05-19T13:20:58.000Z> LawrenceGerald: So my college experience consisted of me running around acting like a wild animal. Not terribly different from what you see today. 
<2023-05-19T13:21:59.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Fortunately, I was able to sober up during that time. And, except for a period in my late 20s when I tired drinking again, I've been sober from alcohol and drugs ever since. 
<2023-05-19T13:23:19.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh shit 
<2023-05-19T13:23:24.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: So what was taught there?
<2023-05-19T13:23:41.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I never understood why I was supposed to give a shit about a career. Never made any sense, and there was no field that I thought it would be interesting to work in. I stumbled into being an editor, as I told you, and that meshed well with my weird brain. 
<2023-05-19T13:25:13.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I majored in a really dumb liberal arts field, because I had to major in something and so I picked the easiest thing. What was taught there, even in the 80s, was revisionist jew history and Frankfurt School cultural marxism and antiwhiteness. Yes, even then. 
<2023-05-19T13:28:01.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I learned absolutely nothing the entire time. I discovered too late, in my senior year, that I should have studied linguistics. I supported myself in college by waiting tables and my mom (dad had already passed away) paid my tuition. Exactly what is impossible today, I was able to pay my own way without taking out loans. It took 10 years! 
<2023-05-19T13:28:40.000Z> LawrenceGerald: So I'm in the SWPL college graduate club. Honestly I only finished bc it meant so much to my mom. 
<2023-05-19T13:29:06.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: See, that shit you just said about the liberal arts is also why I never took such a degree 
<2023-05-19T13:29:33.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Well, it's unbelievably gay, literally and perjoratively
<2023-05-19T13:29:58.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Some of my module mates were wondering why I didn’t take a degree in philosophy or some shit like that 
<2023-05-19T13:30:10.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: They just vaguely know I have interests in that field 
<2023-05-19T13:30:11.000Z> LawrenceGerald: What *are* you studying? If you don't wanna self doxx that's ok
<2023-05-19T13:30:34.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well, its more to do with coding related stuff, I feel somewhat out of place honestly 
<2023-05-19T13:32:06.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I wish all the time that my mind worked that way and that I had studied that. 
<2023-05-19T13:32:33.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: On the bright side, its not that gay 
<2023-05-19T13:32:51.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well, if its actually teaching the programming related stuff that is 
<2023-05-19T13:32:56.000Z> LawrenceGerald: No, I know lots and lots of geeks and they're not very gay
<2023-05-19T13:33:10.000Z> LawrenceGerald: culturally
<2023-05-19T13:33:20.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And it can be useful, so its like ehhh 
<2023-05-19T13:33:29.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I guess they're trying to make them gayer (sad face)
<2023-05-19T13:33:58.000Z> LawrenceGerald: How are fags regarded in Singapore?
<2023-05-19T13:33:59.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: On the other hand, the university mandates a “holistic” education, so 
<2023-05-19T13:35:00.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Fags I’m pretty sure are frowned upon but I don’t think we are that vehemently anti-gay 
<2023-05-19T13:35:22.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I know my mum strongly disapproves 
<2023-05-19T13:35:40.000Z> LawrenceGerald: There must have originally been a Malay native population of Singapore before the smarty-pants Chinese showed up
<2023-05-19T13:35:52.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh yes, there were 
<2023-05-19T13:36:09.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I don't really know the history. I actually didn't know it had been a British colony
<2023-05-19T13:36:39.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I don't know how long Malays were Muslim, or even how the hell that happened. 
<2023-05-19T13:36:47.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Yep, to my understanding due to strategic location and also because I think the Dutch took Indonesia 
<2023-05-19T13:38:17.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I’m actually not that sure myself 
<2023-05-19T13:38:35.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: As in how the Malays ended up adopting Islam
<2023-05-19T13:39:27.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I knew a Malay chick in college. She was very pretty, and appealed greatly to the Yellow Fever crowd.
<2023-05-19T13:39:47.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh yes, Malay women *can* be very pretty 
<2023-05-19T13:42:17.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: How was the culture like in college or university?
<2023-05-19T13:42:28.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Like is it very competitive or...?
<2023-05-19T13:42:56.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I think for more normal, industrious types, it probably was competitive. 
<2023-05-19T13:43:23.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I have heard some horror stories from my brother; university life can get so competitive to the point that students resort to cheating
<2023-05-19T13:43:26.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Women really mostly only compete on who's the prettiest and thinnest. 
<2023-05-19T13:43:40.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Is your brother here?
<2023-05-19T13:43:49.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That's for his university anyway, I went to a different one
<2023-05-19T13:44:02.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Yeah he's here
<2023-05-19T13:44:36.000Z> LawrenceGerald: There's the whole Tiger Mom stereotype of smart industrious Chinese students who feel compelled to cheat to get ahead. 
<2023-05-19T13:46:06.000Z> LawrenceGerald: the Tiger Moms drive their children, is the stereotype. I've not really witnessed it myself, but I am a racist and this I've always really only associated with other white people. Actually I prefer to only associate with heritage Texans. 
<2023-05-19T13:46:13.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I don't think my particular university is that competitive, although that might just be me because I'm not that interested in competing
<2023-05-19T13:47:01.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: My mum doesn't push me that much although she'll react in a very Asian way if I and/or my brother do badly
<2023-05-19T13:47:17.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I spent some time in the 00s working with Stanford students. So the wealthiest, brightest young people who were able to get into Stanford. 
<2023-05-19T13:47:27.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Although the stereotype is... not wrong
<2023-05-19T13:47:41.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: There's a reason why there is a substantial tuition industry in Singapore
<2023-05-19T13:47:48.000Z> LawrenceGerald: industry?
<2023-05-19T13:48:29.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well, more like sector but you get what I mean, there's a lot of money to be made as a tutor
<2023-05-19T13:48:58.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Ahhhh. I could tutor English grammar, but my social skills are not stellar. 
<2023-05-19T13:49:05.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That shit is lucrative because many Singaporean parents want tuition for their kids
<2023-05-19T13:49:10.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I love grammar so much.
<2023-05-19T13:49:39.000Z> LawrenceGerald: That industriousness is the thing everyone loves about the Chinese. 
<2023-05-19T13:50:19.000Z> LawrenceGerald: If they weren't here, in my country, getting ahead at the expense of white kids, I would feel better about it. Pls don't be offended fren. 
<2023-05-19T13:50:30.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Nah, I'm not offended by that
<2023-05-19T13:50:53.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I'm more offended at being basically called a soulless drone, lol
<2023-05-19T13:51:53.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Well. I am a real, actual woman on the internet, and I have to read a lot of hatred directed at me, and all women, and not react. Especially because a lot of it is ... not wrong. 
<2023-05-19T13:52:46.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well, fair, although in my defence I don't think it accurate to say majority of us Chinese actually eat bats or dogs
<2023-05-19T13:52:47.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I mean, women are fucked up (back to the whole Eve thing) and feminism and modern life has absolutely shredded women's psyches. 
<2023-05-19T13:53:03.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I really try not to think about the bats and dogs thing
<2023-05-19T13:53:13.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Now ok, caveat here: us Chinese, myself included, might eat things that you whites think would be pretty strange
<2023-05-19T13:53:36.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: But no way do we eat bats and dogs, certainly not where I live
<2023-05-19T13:53:50.000Z> LawrenceGerald: It's ok to have regional food cultures, y'know?
<2023-05-19T13:54:22.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Yeah, and apparently the French eat cooked snails so its not like the Chinese are the only ones eating strange food, ha!
<2023-05-19T13:54:36.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Eating dogs is not unheard of throughout history. I can't say if I were starving that I would refuse it/ 
<2023-05-19T13:54:57.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I've had escargot and they were pretty tasty.
<2023-05-19T13:55:27.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well ok but I've heard how foie gras is made and uh, I kind of wish I have never heard it
<2023-05-19T13:55:54.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I don't dig Asian food in general, not Thai or Vietnamese or Chinese and I especially do not like Korean food. 
<2023-05-19T13:56:16.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Understandable, Korean food isn't that good honestly
<2023-05-19T13:56:44.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: The BBQ is not bad but I get the impression that a lot of the hype is because of the popularity of things like k-pop and k-drama
<2023-05-19T13:57:20.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I have eaten some actual Italian pasta and actually loved it, it was perfect
<2023-05-19T13:57:36.000Z> LawrenceGerald: It's a shitlib thing over here to LOOOOOVE Asian food, and I tried to, but it's not 100% to my liking
<2023-05-19T13:58:38.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: For me I eat Chinese food all the time because well, I'm Chinese, its familiar and its fairly cheap
<2023-05-19T13:58:45.000Z> LawrenceGerald: A friend of mine went to Hong Kong during the Olympics and he told me that the reason Chinese ppl aren't fat like we are (we meaning Amerikwans, I am not fat) is the food is terrible. 
<2023-05-19T13:59:26.000Z> LawrenceGerald: It's just different. Different soil, water, sun, vegetation, animals. 
<2023-05-19T14:00:30.000Z> LawrenceGerald: If you were here you'd probably have a terrible time adjusting to the food. And our food culture, the way we eat, has been direly fucked with by business. 
<2023-05-19T14:01:18.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: "has been direly fucked with by business" oof, how so?
<2023-05-19T14:01:20.000Z> LawrenceGerald: You have to make a very concerted effort to eat simple, quality, wholesome food. I'm a housewife, so that's my job, to see to that
<2023-05-19T14:01:38.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Ahhhh ok, so shit like processed foods
<2023-05-19T14:01:40.000Z> LawrenceGerald: the whole food industry, 
<2023-05-19T14:01:49.000Z> LawrenceGerald: factory farming
<2023-05-19T14:02:00.000Z> LawrenceGerald: which is a real thing, I live in the farmland
<2023-05-19T14:02:45.000Z> LawrenceGerald: all kinds of additives to food
<2023-05-19T14:02:58.000Z> LawrenceGerald: to make them more tasty, and to give them long shelf life
<2023-05-19T14:03:24.000Z> LawrenceGerald: all supported by ¡SCIENCE! of course
<2023-05-19T14:03:44.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: My mum generally prefers cooking food herself if able although she isn't available for lunch due to work so we have to eat out for lunch
<2023-05-19T14:04:28.000Z> LawrenceGerald: It's the same here. When I worked full-time, we had to eat a lot of convenience food. We both gained weight because of it. 
<2023-05-19T14:04:55.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Convenience food meaning from convenience stores?
<2023-05-19T14:05:08.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Or fast food?
<2023-05-19T14:05:53.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Convenience food is fast food, restaurant food, and already prepared food one might buy at the grocery store. Costco specializes in tasty already prepared food. 
<2023-05-19T14:06:30.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: > restaurant foodThat can't be cheap
<2023-05-19T14:07:11.000Z> LawrenceGerald: When I shop, I buy things that are in no way ready to eat, and have to be processed by me into a meal. Restaurant food is one of the things that has gone up 30%-50%.
<2023-05-19T14:07:53.000Z> LawrenceGerald: When we eat out, it's always $45-$50 for two, and we don't drink alcohol. 
<2023-05-19T14:08:05.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: $45-$50?!?!?!?!
<2023-05-19T14:08:11.000Z> LawrenceGerald: yep
<2023-05-19T14:08:39.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Jeez, over here I can get an ok meal for like, S$5?
<2023-05-19T14:09:02.000Z> LawrenceGerald: lunch at some place like Chipotle, a fast food burrito joint, is $15 for one
<2023-05-19T14:09:10.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I had no idea food was that expensive there, jfc
<2023-05-19T14:09:39.000Z> LawrenceGerald: It's not wildly cheaper to cook at home, but you can better control what goes in your body
<2023-05-19T14:10:09.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That's another reason why my mum prefers to cook, although I don't think she is able to cook as much as you lol
<2023-05-19T14:10:17.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I don't think she can make pastries
<2023-05-19T14:11:23.000Z> LawrenceGerald: It's time-consuming. Also, I suffer from the sin of gluttony, and I make pastries and pies and other delicious gourmet things purely for my own enjoyment
<2023-05-19T14:12:05.000Z> LawrenceGerald: It was my birthday this week, so I made myself a cake bc I knew I could make one better than anything I could buy around here
<2023-05-19T14:12:14.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Yeah, and my mum works as a factory worker in the day so time isn't really something she has
<2023-05-19T14:12:50.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Well, bless her heart. I know you love her but make sure to be sweet to her and do nice little things for her. 
<2023-05-19T14:13:41.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Make her favorite dish for her. It would probably blow her mind to have someone make dinner. 
<2023-05-19T14:17:14.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Here is where I very sheepishly and embarassingly admit that I uh, can't really cook
<2023-05-19T14:17:49.000Z> LawrenceGerald: That's ok, most dudes your age can't, but you can learn. After all, wamman do it, and we are idiots. 
<2023-05-19T14:17:50.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I try to help out where I can though, mostly with chores
<2023-05-19T14:18:58.000Z> LawrenceGerald: She might teach you if you ask. If you move out on your own it would be good to know how to feed yourself economically at home. 
<2023-05-19T14:22:31.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That'll probably be during the weekends, I don't think she has time during weekdays
<2023-05-19T14:23:43.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Can't hurt to try
<2023-05-19T14:26:17.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And yeah my mum always brags about being able to feed everyone in my family for not much money at all
<2023-05-19T14:26:49.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well, probably not bragging if its true, lol
<2023-05-19T14:27:44.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And wait, I heard that right? $15 for fast food?
<2023-05-19T14:28:34.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Over here, fast food like McDonald's is like more expensive than what you typically buy when you eat-out
<2023-05-19T14:29:36.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Of course restaurants are more expensive but I personally don't like restaurants that much
<2023-05-19T14:30:32.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I still remember eating at some fine-dining establishment (was treated to it) and didn't really like it
<2023-05-19T14:31:26.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: The portions were pretty small and the food wasn't really that good
<2023-05-19T14:31:47.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I said I enjoyed it out of courtesy but when I went back home I complained about it, lol
<2023-05-19T14:40:46.000Z> LawrenceGerald: What's a typical dish your mom makes for everyone? Describe it.
<2023-05-19T14:43:16.000Z> LawrenceGerald: My husband eats keto so a typical dish I would make for us would be braised beef shanks and green beans with butter. He likes to bake, so he makes bread for me to eat and will have a small amount for himself on the weekends. I like fish, chicken, and pork, but he really only likes beef.
<2023-05-19T14:44:39.000Z> LawrenceGerald: My autism actually runs to food. I get very deep into the details of cooking, and the provenance of the ingredients, and methods and techniques. 
<2023-05-19T14:46:55.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Honestly I’m not even sure if there’s a “typical dish” because many times she just cooks with whatever she has 
<2023-05-19T14:48:58.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Basically what she does is she buys whatever ingredients she can find for a reasonable amount of money and just makes do with what she has 
<2023-05-19T14:51:21.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh speaking of pork, I can tell you us Chinese are basically addicted to pork 
<2023-05-19T14:52:27.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh and of course when mum buys ingredients, they have to be fresh, obviously 
<2023-05-19T14:52:52.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I'm a fan of pork, and the Chinese food I've liked tended to feature it. 
<2023-05-19T14:53:53.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Raising pigs at a large scale is problematic (to me) for a number of reasons. So I try to mostly eat pork that's raised locally by Mennonites on pasture. 
<2023-05-19T14:54:41.000Z> LawrenceGerald: So probably your mom makes stir-fry dishes with vegetables, meat, and rice?
<2023-05-19T14:55:21.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Yeah that sounds about right, she does stir-fry a fair bit 
<2023-05-19T14:55:42.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Fish is not infrequent though so we do eat steamed fish not infrequently 
<2023-05-19T14:59:16.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Husband hates seafood, and also we're several hours from the ocean, so I never make it at home. I love it tho. A lot. I have taken special trips just to eat oysters in certain places where the conditions of the sea are most favorable. 
<2023-05-19T15:01:01.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The gulf coast, the Pacific Northwest, New Zealand, and the North Atlantic coast of France are all excellent oyster regions. I would like to eat them in Ireland and Canada too, but post-covid I may never travel again. Not because I'm afraid of the virus, but because people are giant faggots. 
<2023-05-19T15:01:11.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I like good fish myself 
<2023-05-19T15:01:32.000Z> LawrenceGerald: You are fortunate to live where you do. 
<2023-05-19T15:01:47.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh yes its not that bad here 
<2023-05-19T15:01:58.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Although some things I would change 
<2023-05-19T15:02:07.000Z> LawrenceGerald: like ... ?
<2023-05-19T15:02:11.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: But materially this place isn’t bad 
<2023-05-19T15:02:47.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well culturally it can be somewhat l*beral but not to the extent of America 
<2023-05-19T15:02:52.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: So that I would change 
<2023-05-19T15:03:20.000Z> LawrenceGerald: funny since it's so authoritarian
<2023-05-19T15:04:19.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Yeah it is somewhat paradoxical 
<2023-05-19T15:05:07.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Its typical for women here to go to university and get jobs and whatnot too 
<2023-05-19T15:05:46.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I must say I still don’t like universities that much though
<2023-05-19T15:05:47.000Z> LawrenceGerald: hence the low birthrate
<2023-05-19T15:05:50.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Yep 
<2023-05-19T15:06:30.000Z> LawrenceGerald: university culture is awful. Anyone who can get along in that environment, and do well, is sus at best
<2023-05-19T15:06:30.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I mean when your university also tries to teach you how to be a good “global citizen” and whatnot…
<2023-05-19T15:07:02.000Z> LawrenceGerald: don't be a good global citizen
<2023-05-19T15:07:34.000Z> LawrenceGerald: But is your loyalty to Singapore, or to your people? Is that even a question there? 
<2023-05-19T15:08:25.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh you mean where you have to choose between the state or the people as though they’re opposed to each other?
<2023-05-19T15:08:26.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Regardless, and this goes back to Christianity, loving your neighbor means your actual neighbors. So you concentrate your efforts on your immediate circle. 
<2023-05-19T15:08:52.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Yeah I don’t think that’s the case here 
<2023-05-19T15:09:02.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Well, the state is located in Malaysia but the people in charge are Chinese--seems like a conflict
<2023-05-19T15:09:30.000Z> LawrenceGerald: or, idk, maybe the Chinese have effectively made it a colony of china
<2023-05-19T15:10:20.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Ehhh its alright, its majority Chinese and the law is known to be fair, so there is that 
<2023-05-19T15:11:53.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Eventually Chinese ppl will have been there long enough that they can have a real Blood and Soil feeling about the place. Like we Texans do. Like Europeans do, deep in their psyches. 
<2023-05-19T15:12:14.000Z> LawrenceGerald: That might not make sense to you now, but it will later
<2023-05-19T15:12:30.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: No, actually I sort of get it
<2023-05-19T15:12:57.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Singaporean Chinese don’t tend to view themselves as directly interchangeable with those from the mainland 
<2023-05-19T15:13:05.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Mainland = China 
<2023-05-19T15:13:05.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I got it when I was young ... but I am a Texan. You may be figuring out that we are fanatical about our home. 
<2023-05-19T15:13:55.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Maybe I’m not as fanatical but I don’t think I would choose to live anywhere else, tbh 
<2023-05-19T15:14:05.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I mean I grew up here, so 
<2023-05-19T15:14:08.000Z> LawrenceGerald: this is as it should be
<2023-05-19T15:17:02.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: As for state and the people, probably just my opinion but no one should ever have to choose between the two 
<2023-05-19T15:17:24.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: The state which I take to be the government and the people should form one organism 
<2023-05-19T15:18:57.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Of course this is more of an ideal but I like to think it is a good ideal 
<2023-05-19T15:19:29.000Z> LawrenceGerald: it is devoutly to be wished
<2023-05-19T15:21:53.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Choosing just the people would be like chopping off the head of the human body and choosing just the government would be like chopping off the rest of the body 
<2023-05-19T15:24:14.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I like to think this is the healthy way of looking at things in non-clown world 
<2023-05-19T15:25:28.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And ye, its also something I basically got from my understanding of fascism 
<2023-05-19T15:27:46.000Z> LawrenceGerald: It must be the middle of the night over there, it's midmorning here. I'm-a get up and do some laundry. Peace be unto you my fren, and here is a gif of my dog boofing (I'm like a boomer learning to make memes)  https://i.poastcdn.org/e076151072c0f4ac70cd3383167c4531931c87abd7a13a9979134599cd0f1371.gif
<2023-05-19T15:28:27.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh you would be right, its nearly 11.30pm over here right now 
<2023-05-19T15:29:24.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And peace be unto you too!
<2023-05-19T15:29:32.000Z> LawrenceGerald: this is the dog who was fearlessly defending against a snake. she is small (by my standards) but mighty
<2023-05-19T15:32:30.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well, there’s a reason why some say dog is man’s best friend 
<2023-05-19T15:32:49.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Although my mum doesn’t really approve of keeping dogs around 
<2023-05-19T15:33:35.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Not really because of any animosity but because of the mess that dogs can leave behind which she doesn’t want to deal with 
<2023-05-19T15:33:59.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well, according to her anyway 
<2023-05-19T15:34:32.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: (Oh and the dog looks good)
<2023-05-19T22:48:28.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I’m also going to assume that you never take public transport if you want to move around 
<2023-05-19T22:48:51.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I’ve heard all sorts of horror stories about American public transport, especially when mixed together with niggers 
<2023-05-19T22:51:40.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Which is kind of inconceivable for most Singaporeans because public transport here is the most common way of moving around. 
<2023-05-19T22:56:40.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: In one part that’s because the Singaporean government doesn’t encourage private vehicle ownership. In another, the public transport system is honestly not bad.
<2023-05-19T23:04:30.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Personally I don’t think I’ll ever be owning a car, I just don’t see the point over here.
<2023-05-19T23:05:36.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: It’s not a big country and the public transport network is fine so having a car would just be additional unneeded expense and more of a status symbol than anything else.
<2023-05-20T00:48:13.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh yeah, I mentioned my mum is (well, was) a Chinese national around your age 
<2023-05-20T00:49:14.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: So the horror stories of the Great Famine would most likely still be within public consciousness during her childhood 
<2023-05-20T00:49:28.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: As in she would’ve known about it 
<2023-05-20T00:49:55.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And some of the horror stories she told about what starving peasants went through during that period… *shudders*
<2023-05-20T00:51:09.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I’ve heard stories about people eating tree bark and otherwise inedible leaves from her 
<2023-05-20T00:51:27.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That’s probably why she’s so adamant against any kind of food wastage
<2023-05-20T12:14:28.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Also unrelated: idk why but I like some of these old patriotic/military songs for some reason, like this one: altcensored.com/watch?v=l5FcW7f75SA
<2023-05-20T12:16:26.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh and yes, trench warfare gets icky and in those conditions, the knife and the grenade actually are the better weapons there due to the frequency of close combat
<2023-05-20T12:24:38.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And this one is Japanese (which makes it ironic), but I like it as well, very solemn: altcensored.com/watch?v=b_uCQsauYRE
<2023-05-20T13:35:38.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I think the first one you posted is set to a John Philip Sousa tune, but I didn't confirm this, it's just my first guess. 
<2023-05-20T13:39:06.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The Japanese one is pretty cool. Minor chords. And not to oversimplify, but some things really are that simple, you like military marches bc you are a boy, and they are designed to stir the male heart to want to march to war with his companions. A thing that women don't really get. ALTHO. My mom loved Sousa marches. We had several old albums (on vinyl) and she would play them on the Fourth of July and drink. Well, she drank every day, as did we all, but she'd get extra-peppy and march around waving the flag gaily. 
<2023-05-20T13:42:57.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I was raised to be patriotic. Not in a stupid way, I don't think, but more of a civic duty and pride way. As I mentioned, my people have been here for 150 years longer than America has been a country. It was hard to admit that the good times of America were over, and that the country I was proud of no longer existed. I finally said goodbye to the whole idea of America and any belief that we would somehow pull ourselves out of this during Trump's administration.
<2023-05-20T13:46:06.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: My parents would always remind I and my brother that we should consider ourselves lucky to be in Singapore
<2023-05-20T13:46:11.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The deeper I go into Orthodoxy, the more I understand the protestant and masonic heresies upon which America was founded. Of course, if Europe had stayed within the Church, and not gone off on its own with the Roman Catholic schismatic heresy, probably they wouldn't have had that inchoate urge to explore and colonize.
<2023-05-20T13:46:30.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Why are you lucky to be in Singapore?
<2023-05-20T13:47:13.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well, that's what my parents always say, and I do agree on at least some level; life isn't too bad here, at least materially
<2023-05-20T13:47:19.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: BUT
<2023-05-20T13:47:26.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And this is the huge but
<2023-05-20T13:48:00.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Singapore in my opinion is also an example as to the limits of a largely political/economic solution
<2023-05-20T13:50:19.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: This is also why I do actually sympathise with those self-proclaimed Christian nationalists, assuming they are being genuine
<2023-05-20T13:50:21.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I was just looking at pictures of it and it's SO URBAN. Eek! 
<2023-05-20T13:50:28.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well, at least on some level
<2023-05-20T13:50:41.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well, it is a city-state, so there you go
<2023-05-20T13:51:12.000Z> LawrenceGerald: All my life I've gotten terrible anxiety in big cities. 
<2023-05-20T13:51:23.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Even here it is noisy and hectic
<2023-05-20T13:51:39.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I sometimes do wonder how it would be like if it was all quiet
<2023-05-20T13:51:50.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Out here, while I still have all my other neuroses, I simply don't experience that feeling of pressure from all the people. 
<2023-05-20T13:52:51.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I do not expect this to happen any time soon, but I could get behind Christian nationalism ***IF*** it was an Orthodox monarchy under the Romanovs. 
<2023-05-20T13:53:51.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well on some level I get what the Christian nationalists are trying to do: to really highlight the importance of religion and that spiritual aspect
<2023-05-20T13:54:26.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Some kind of protestant la-la-land does not appeal to me at all. I already live in something approximating that. Central Texas is heavily, heavily Baptist. Almost everyone is white, and very nice and a good neighbor, but they are of the world, not the Kingdom of God. 
<2023-05-20T13:54:28.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: The importance of the spiritual aspect is IMHO a fundamental fact that is sadly lost on many white nationalists.
<2023-05-20T13:54:52.000Z> LawrenceGerald: That's because THEY also are of the world. 
<2023-05-20T13:55:49.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Often times I would try to remind them of that but they either don't register, ignore it or give me the cold shoulder
<2023-05-20T13:56:18.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Probably also because they think I'm trying to infiltrate their countries or something.
<2023-05-20T13:57:04.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I don't think you can ever really get across to these people that God created them with an eternal soul and we were meant to be united with him and that is much more important than arranging the affairs of men in this temporary life according to lower ideals. 
<2023-05-20T13:57:48.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The only thing you can do, my dear fren, is to pray (and get baptized and go to Liturgy regularly)
<2023-05-20T13:58:36.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Now, not every single nationalist is hopeless, there are also several who understand this fact
<2023-05-20T13:59:02.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: But yeah, its unfortunate that many don't get it.
<2023-05-20T13:59:53.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Srsly I think the Christian nationalists are a little like lolberts. Somehow, a bloodless revolution will happen and all the bad ppl will go away and the jews will leave us alone and we can all go back to being nice to each other and making money. 
<2023-05-20T14:00:06.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: It doesn't help even if I link them a book from a fairly objective historian that even the National Socialists don't think of race and nation in wholly biological terms.
<2023-05-20T14:00:43.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: At this point I'm tempted to adopt the "save whoever I can" attitude
<2023-05-20T14:00:47.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Because, no fooling, American protestants think the purpose God created us for is to be nice and make lots of money. 
<2023-05-20T14:01:07.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >bloodless revolution and the bad ppl will go away
<2023-05-20T14:01:09.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: lmao
<2023-05-20T14:01:23.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I'm fully into saving whoever I can
<2023-05-20T14:02:13.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I'm glad to be off blab for the time being. I have much more peace of mind not reading all the anger and negativity. I have plenty of my own. 
<2023-05-20T14:03:29.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I'm still on it but mostly just do my usual bookpoasts or shitpoast with other blab frens
<2023-05-20T14:08:41.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Anyway, another one I like, if somewhat morbid: altcensored.com/watch?v=twQSjPyP2Xk
<2023-05-20T14:09:13.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: This is the Waffen-SS saying: "We are prepared to go to Hell in our service to Germany."
<2023-05-20T14:10:14.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Those wacky Germans. 
<2023-05-20T14:10:59.000Z> LawrenceGerald: True confession time: I am not a huge Hitler fan, or admirer of National Socialist Germany. 
<2023-05-20T14:11:08.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I get that
<2023-05-20T14:11:19.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Although that will probably get you lynched on blab
<2023-05-20T14:11:32.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Now obviously Hitler was right about the jews.
<2023-05-20T14:11:55.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Personally I don't think Mein Kampf is *that* good.
<2023-05-20T14:12:02.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: So there you go.
<2023-05-20T14:12:41.000Z> LawrenceGerald: And I now understand that, as someone who was in school in the 70s and 80s, I learned a pack of propagandistic lies about that war. 
<2023-05-20T14:13:32.000Z> LawrenceGerald: So I proceed from the understanding that I don't really know what happened or exactly why ... and I don't care all that much. 
<2023-05-20T14:15:31.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Personally I think the National Socialists got right a fair number of the political and economic stuff
<2023-05-20T14:15:35.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The jews rejected Christ and killed him. God withdrew his Grace from them and bestowed it upon those who believe in his name. I have this sort of idea--and this is very much my own opinion so it is worth nothing--that God allows the jews to do the evil they do to help bring us to repentance. 
<2023-05-20T14:15:50.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: But again, the spiritual element is not as strong as it should be
<2023-05-20T14:16:20.000Z> LawrenceGerald: NS Germany was probably a pretty great place to be, if you were German. 
<2023-05-20T14:16:49.000Z> LawrenceGerald: But Germany had abandoned Christ long before, with the Lutheran heresies. 
<2023-05-20T14:17:26.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I have heard about Protestantism and its various, shall we say, "social innovations"
<2023-05-20T14:17:41.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: (And no, this is not meant to be a compliment, lol.)
<2023-05-20T14:18:53.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I wouldn't say this on blab, bc no one but Ortho-people would get it, but only repentance and humble reliance on God is the way. Governments of men, and all these grand ideas, are just diversions that keep ppl from repenting and relying on God. And so they serve the enemy (that one I talked to you about).
<2023-05-20T14:19:55.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I wouldn't have wanted to live in Byzantium, the Eastern Roman Empire. It was a little rough. 
<2023-05-20T14:20:53.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I actually don't know much about it
<2023-05-20T14:21:02.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Maybe tell me more?
<2023-05-20T14:21:31.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I fully understand the people who are abandoning the US and moving to Russia so they can live in an Orthodox community and raise their families free of sodomite propaganda and nigger violence. 
<2023-05-20T14:22:16.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I have heard some describe America as nothing but an economic zone or giant shopping mall at this point
<2023-05-20T14:22:35.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: So I get why people would leave it
<2023-05-20T14:23:48.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh yeah, so I actually just read a Wikipedia article on Arianism
<2023-05-20T14:23:54.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism
<2023-05-20T14:24:14.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And even just at the beginning, I was wondering if Arius is a retard or has lost his marbles
<2023-05-20T14:24:40.000Z> LawrenceGerald: All I know of the pre-schism Christian Near East has come through Orthodoxy, so it's kind of limited. I've not made any study of it. My general feeling is that the government reflected the people, who were Greeks and various Levantine middle easterners. To an English-descended person, they were sort of half-niggers. 
<2023-05-20T14:25:33.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Middle Easterners then and now did not arrange their societies in a way that an English-descended person would find congenial. 
<2023-05-20T14:26:38.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Ah, ok
<2023-05-20T14:27:07.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I also don't know much about these Middle-Easterners arrange their societies, lol
<2023-05-20T14:27:27.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: As for Arius, I saw this bit which I thought was hilariously stupid
<2023-05-20T14:27:35.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >'Arian theology holds that Jesus Christ is the Son of God,[4][a][5][b] who was begotten by God the Father[2] with the difference that the Son of God did not always exist but was begotten/made[c] before "time" by God the Father'
<2023-05-20T14:28:09.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh, and to show just how stupid that really is:
<2023-05-20T14:28:14.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >'therefore, Jesus was not coeternal with God the Father,[2] but nonetheless Jesus began to exist outside time as time applies only to the creations of God.[e]'
<2023-05-20T14:28:47.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Saying "before" and "after" already admits the existence of time.
<2023-05-20T14:28:59.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: What the fuck is Arius thinking when he said that?
<2023-05-20T14:29:02.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Regarding leaving the US, though. I have given it a lot of thought. If you believe the blab, we have to leave Texas because it will turn into a narco-state dystopia. Texas already has a lot of dystopic elements, many of which come from the influx of Californians, yankees, and Chicagoans as well as the huge amount of Mexicans. 
<2023-05-20T14:29:15.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >Californians
<2023-05-20T14:29:17.000Z> LawrenceGerald: You see how easy it is to get in the weeds with theology!
<2023-05-20T14:29:19.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh God
<2023-05-20T14:30:42.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh, another bit about Arianism:
<2023-05-20T14:30:45.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >'Arius' trinitarian theology, later given an extreme form by Aetius and his disciple Eunomius and called anomoean ("dissimilar"), asserts a total dissimilarity between the Son and the Father.[8] Arianism holds that the Son is distinct from the Father and therefore subordinate to him.'
<2023-05-20T14:30:47.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I am deeply attached the land here. Blood and soil, people. A lot of the folks who say that don't get the "soil" part. 
<2023-05-20T14:31:38.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Yeah I also get the feeling people just focus on the "Blood" part
<2023-05-20T14:31:46.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Don't rely on Wikipedia to be accurate concerning anything Christian. 
<2023-05-20T14:32:23.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I mean fair is fair but what I saw was so hilariously stupid that I had to comment
<2023-05-20T14:33:15.000Z> LawrenceGerald: There's orthodoxwiki.org, and also use caution regarding any info here, but it's a lot better than Wikipedia which is really only good for reading about bands and such. 
<2023-05-20T14:33:24.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh, and saying Jesus is radically distinct from the Father while saying that Jesus is begotten from the Father is retard-tier
<2023-05-20T14:33:51.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Arianism almost won the day, back in the day. 
<2023-05-20T14:34:36.000Z> LawrenceGerald: He was not an idiot, he presented it intelligently, and  a lot of bishops were convinced. Arian had lots and lots of followers. 
<2023-05-20T14:36:49.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The thing that originally interested me about Orthodoxy was the way the Church determines what is dogma and what is heresy. And because of the schism, the Church is no longer whole, and can't meet in conciliarity to hash out theological matters anymore. THEREFORE. It's never going to get together and say that fags can be married, or that women can be priests. 
<2023-05-20T14:37:37.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I expect the Roman Church in my lifetime to ordain women and marry fags. 
<2023-05-20T14:38:29.000Z> LawrenceGerald: It's rough for the humble ordinary Roman Catholic people, who just want their church to stop changing and go back to being a rock. 
<2023-05-20T14:39:32.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I know Protestant churches in America are already allowing faggotry
<2023-05-20T14:43:10.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: So trinitarianism: basically the Son is God, the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God, but the Son is not the Father and is not the Holy Spirit (applicable to the reverse as well)?
<2023-05-20T14:44:24.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: If this is the case, I understand this perfectly intuitively, tbh
<2023-05-20T14:46:40.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I get your concern about philosophy but without reading Plato I may perhaps have never understood this intuitively.
<2023-05-20T14:49:06.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Because unity-with-distinction is a key feature of Plato and those that take after him.
<2023-05-20T14:59:09.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: (You are free to ignore all of that if it all sounds demonic. I apologise in advance.)
<2023-05-20T15:01:04.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I would say that on a practical level, I myself personally do not spend a lot of time thinking how Christ is different from God the Father Almighty or the Holy Spirit. Before I came back to the Church, I prayed to God only and never spent any time thinking about Jesus Christ the Son of God. From talking to ppl, I think a lot of folks do exactly this. 
<2023-05-20T15:02:50.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: But you know me. Lol.
<2023-05-20T15:07:49.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I just read in the Gospel yesterday, John 5:18-23, that "the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son." I've been thinking of this since then. Your average agnostic or even deracinated mushy Christian has a problem with the concept of judgment. They find the idea that they will be judged to be intolerable. I used to have a friend who was very sexually permissive, to the point of sleeping with her friends' husbands, and the entire 30 years I knew her she would exclaim "You can't judge me!" She was very adamantly sure that she was NOT to be judged, ever, for anything she did. I think this is a very common sentiment among post-Christian Americas.  
<2023-05-20T15:08:00.000Z> LawrenceGerald: AmericaNs
<2023-05-20T15:08:30.000Z> LawrenceGerald: (or AmericanTs, whichever you prefer) (heh_
<2023-05-20T15:08:36.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >"I used to have a friend who was very sexually permissive, to the point of sleeping with her friends' husbands"Bruh.
<2023-05-20T15:08:54.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I don't think she ever slept with my personal husband
<2023-05-20T15:09:14.000Z> LawrenceGerald: but I saw her do it with plenty of other womens' men
<2023-05-20T15:09:22.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Ewww
<2023-05-20T15:10:56.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Well, when I was younger I was very lost, and behaved badly, and associated with ppl who acted like I did. Although I have never slept with anyone's husband. It was a line in the sand for me. Then I became Christian (again) and learned what sex and marriage is really for. 
<2023-05-20T15:12:02.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Anyway, that is a Biblically-laid-out delineation of separate energies of Father and Son. 
<2023-05-20T15:13:17.000Z> LawrenceGerald: And since we are all sinners, and at some deep soul level fear the righteous judgment of God, it makes sense that ppl extrude a lot of squid ink to muddy the waters surrounding these separate energies of God. 
<2023-05-20T15:16:05.000Z> LawrenceGerald: as an aside, I am no longer friends with this woman. I miss her, but we really have gone in separate directions in life. This has been true for about 98% of the female friends I used to have. The closer I get to God, the less they want to have anything to do with me. I'm the same slightly autistic eccentric I've always been, but now that I'm trying to acquire virtue they find my company less congenial. 
<2023-05-20T15:18:15.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well, I’ve heard some say that bad company is worse than no company
<2023-05-20T15:19:43.000Z> LawrenceGerald: When you are Orthodox, you can have the Fellowship of the Saints! Srsly, I pray to several female saints for companionship on this journey, because I know only a couple of women who are doing the same thing I'm doing. 
<2023-05-20T15:20:12.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I haven't hit it off with most of the women at my church, and at my age, I'm over trying. 
<2023-05-20T15:20:22.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I mean, I am done with trying. 
<2023-05-20T15:21:55.000Z> LawrenceGerald: You have to be very fake and timid and falsely self-effacing to get along with the average modern American middle-aged lady. I won't bore you with the details, but it's ultra fake and gay and I'm not doing it. 
<2023-05-20T15:23:31.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I think my challenge is to love them and be of service to them without entering into their gay American fakery. Obviously of myself I don't have the strength and wisdom to do this. I have to let God work in me to accomplish this. 
<2023-05-20T15:24:47.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I didn't mean to get heavy and female and interpersonal with you, but you *do* get from me what it's like to be a sincere Orthodox Christian trying to really live with faith in the fake gay world. 
<2023-05-20T15:25:19.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I don’t mind it honestly 
<2023-05-20T15:28:25.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I think very few here are like me or could ever be like me, regarding my deepest thoughts 
<2023-05-20T15:28:30.000Z> LawrenceGerald: This conversation reminded me that I forgot to do my Scripture reading this morning. I am in the Gospel of John, which is so heavy and dense with mystagogy. 
<2023-05-20T15:29:20.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I think despite everything, the internet is awesome for being able to share thoughts with ppl that no one around you seems to share. 
<2023-05-20T15:31:21.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That about the Internet is why I have not completely dismissed it yet 
<2023-05-20T15:31:59.000Z> LawrenceGerald: You probably should read John, because it contains the entire theology of Christianity and does speak directly to the nature of God. 
<2023-05-20T15:33:06.000Z> LawrenceGerald: New King James Version. 
<2023-05-20T15:36:21.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Just looked it up
<2023-05-20T15:36:44.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Now like I said I’m also doing another book but this should also interest me 
<2023-05-20T15:37:17.000Z> LawrenceGerald: You could read read half a chapter or so every morning, before you engage in other pursuits. 
<2023-05-20T15:37:48.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Scripture reading is more like food for your soul than something for the mind to chew on. 
<2023-05-20T15:38:02.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Wait, so for example John 1 is one chapter?
<2023-05-20T15:38:50.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Yes, but Bible chapters are pretty short. John is so dense with meaning I only read partial chapters. 
<2023-05-20T15:38:58.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Ah ok 
<2023-05-20T15:42:49.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I must say I like John 1:1-5 a lot 
<2023-05-20T15:45:35.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I’ll probably do better tomorrow though
<2023-05-20T15:45:43.000Z> LawrenceGerald: John 1:1-14 are some of the most beautiful words ever written, in my opinion. 
<2023-05-20T15:46:30.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I memorized them and recite them sometimes when I need to bring my mind back to what is holy. 
<2023-05-20T15:47:40.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Once again, it is time for me to begin my housewifely duties. I'm still not done with laundry! So I will talk to you later, fren. 
<2023-05-20T15:49:03.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well, I am getting somewhat sleepy so it would be prudent for me to bow out. I think I also screwed up my sleep schedule during the last university semester…
<2023-05-20T23:58:58.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: John 1:10-13 and 1:15-18
<2023-05-20T23:59:14.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Those I like very much too 
<2023-05-21T00:00:17.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: John 1:23 I do identify with to a certain extent 
<2023-05-21T00:10:21.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: On blab whenever I try to convince white nationalists of the importance of the spiritual aspect, I do get that feeling of being “the voice of one crying in the wilderness”.
<2023-05-21T12:21:02.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Actually I gotta say
<2023-05-21T12:22:04.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Maybe this is because of the NKJV translation, but the more I ponder upon John 1:1-5, the more I wonder how exactly did Arius even come to the conclusion that there somehow was a time when Christ did not exist 
<2023-05-21T12:25:04.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Those verses pretty much imply that the Word was with God, and through God everything was made, implying that God is the first condition of all existence.
<2023-05-21T12:26:07.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: So God must be eternal, but if the Word was with God at the beginning, then the Word must be eternal and therefore Jesus Christ must have a divine nature because he is the Word made flesh according to the Gospel of John.
<2023-05-21T16:49:57.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Anyway, regarding where I live, I’ll say that in terms of noise and busy-ness, I don’t think it is as bad here 
<2023-05-21T16:50:44.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: The area where I live is further away from the CBD, or Central Business District 
<2023-05-21T16:51:01.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: In not so many words, relatively speaking I’m sort of a provincial 
<2023-05-21T16:52:30.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well, regarding where I live anyway, relative to the CBD, or Central Business District 
<2023-05-21T16:53:26.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: If you recall, my parents are not exactly loaded with money so they couldn’t buy an apartment unit at the usual “hot spots” 
<2023-05-21T16:57:00.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: The CBD area as well as the Orchard Road area is where there is really a lot of people
<2023-05-21T17:01:09.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That being said, places like train stations tend to be really packed during say around 7-8.30am and also 5-7pm because that’s around the time people go to work and come home from work 
<2023-05-22T12:35:02.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh yeah: Orchard Road is basically the “shopping mall” area, many people go there to do shopping 
<2023-05-22T12:39:58.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I personally don’t care much for it. And when you’ve seen one shopping mall, you’ve probably seen them all anyway.
<2023-05-22T13:26:26.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The times I've visited big cities like Paris and New York and San Francisco (not as big but still a major city), I instinctively find myself in the hidden parts that are almost like the country within the city. 
<2023-05-22T13:27:18.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Sure, I'll take in the tourist-y sites, and I'm not averse to shopping either, but I get tired of the busy-ness pretty fast. 
<2023-05-22T13:29:04.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Where I live in Texas, though very beautiful, is not one of the cute small towns the city people drive out to see on a day trip. Therefore we were able to buy a quite nice older house with a few acres for the same amount of $ we sold our much smaller and not at all nice city house for. 
<2023-05-22T13:33:04.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I’m not averse to shopping myself, I just… feel indifferent to it 
<2023-05-22T13:33:25.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Daily I am grateful and almost disbelieving that I get to live here. The price for that is my husband has to travel for work and is only home on the weekends. In the midst of all this, I figured out that I'm probably autistic, so I spend almost all my time completely alone. That's been a good thing as I wrestle with accepting my total alienation. The last full-time  job I had I dealt with >100 ppl every day, plus busy phones. 
<2023-05-22T13:37:07.000Z> LawrenceGerald: West-Central Texas used to be a mountain range however many thousands or millions of years ago. We Orthodox don't go on for the extremely literal interpretation of Genesis, so there's no fixation on the exact precise age of the earth. It's complicated. It seems clear that ¡SCIENCE! doesn't agree on how old anything is, or how long humans have been around. I've heard any number of divergent figures. It all seems to rely on the fossil record and our modern methods of determining their age. If we have learned anything in the last 10 years, it's that all science is subject to corruption for shekels. 
<2023-05-22T13:37:34.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Your husband’s workplace must be far away from where you live if he can only come home on weekends, damn 
<2023-05-22T13:37:44.000Z> LawrenceGerald: He travels.
<2023-05-22T13:38:13.000Z> LawrenceGerald: He's a truck driver. 
<2023-05-22T13:38:25.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Ahhhhh ok 
<2023-05-22T13:39:15.000Z> LawrenceGerald: If you're smart, you can make very good money doing this. Most truck drivers are <90IQ as far as I can tell. 
<2023-05-22T13:39:55.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Given what can happen on the road, I don’t think you can be a “dumb truck driver” and still be working as a truck driver, lol 
<2023-05-22T13:39:57.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Like every other industry, it used to be all whites, and now it's maybe 40% white
<2023-05-22T13:40:16.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Oh no, these ppl are so fkn dumb dude. 
<2023-05-22T13:41:03.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Perhaps not directly applicable, but I’ve learnt that any branch in any military that sees any serious amount of combat requires its soldiers to have a minimum amount of IQ 
<2023-05-22T13:41:05.000Z> LawrenceGerald: My last job was basically 3 digit IQ ppl helping 2 digit IQ ppl navigate modern logistics.
<2023-05-22T13:41:33.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: If you don’t have enough IQ, you simply don’t have the reflexes and you simply cannot think fast enough 
<2023-05-22T13:42:21.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I have extensive, extensive experience helping ppl who are a lot dumber than I am. It gave me some insight into what it must be like to be super smart, like >140IQ. 
<2023-05-22T13:42:48.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And if you’re in combat and an enemy tank is staring at you, you best hope you can think fast enough so everyone else with you doesn’t get blown up 
<2023-05-22T13:42:50.000Z> LawrenceGerald: It's what made me understand what the problem with black ppl is. 
<2023-05-22T13:43:19.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Gotta tell you, I don't understand combat, modern or otherwise. 
<2023-05-22T13:43:55.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well the gist is that anything that requires some level of reflexes probably requires some minimum level of IQ 
<2023-05-22T13:44:01.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I'm glad my man is too old to fight and I pray that my nephews and friends' boys don't have to. 
<2023-05-22T13:44:18.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh I hope no one in America has to too 
<2023-05-22T13:44:40.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I'm familiar with this line of thought from my many years in online dissidentry. 
<2023-05-22T13:45:08.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I just like knowing about this sort of stuff, if you recall, I mentioned that I like tanks 
<2023-05-22T13:45:20.000Z> LawrenceGerald: It makes sense that you would.
<2023-05-22T13:46:07.000Z> LawrenceGerald: You must be following the action in Ukraine closely then. I've read so many conflicting reports that I decided not to try to keep up with it. 
<2023-05-22T13:46:36.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well, not *that* closely, I’m mostly interested in the history and stuff 
<2023-05-22T13:46:41.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Instead, I pray for all Orthodox Christians, and for the church buildings also since they are desecrating those. 
<2023-05-22T13:46:47.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: And sometimes the more technical stuff
<2023-05-22T13:47:51.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh yeah, the Ukraine war has so many conflicting reports its insane 
<2023-05-22T13:48:13.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Although the Ukrainian side generally has more insane propaganda 
<2023-05-22T13:48:49.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I know several Ukrainians at church. They seem to be completely in thrall to this propaganda. 
<2023-05-22T13:48:51.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I sometimes joke about it by saying that some day the Ukrainians will announce that they destroyed 6 gorrillion Russian tanks from their WW2 reserves 
<2023-05-22T13:49:22.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Sister Wignatia's hot take is that slavs are very pale niggers. 
<2023-05-22T13:49:45.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I mean, they are white, but behave more like smart niggers. They are not like us.
<2023-05-22T13:49:58.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I personally wouldn’t say that, mostly because niggers can’t actually come up with the kind of advanced military equipment that the Soviets have 
<2023-05-22T13:50:40.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: But yeah, I can see why some would say Slavs are not exactly interchangeable with Europeans and other whites 
<2023-05-22T13:50:53.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Well, yes, of course. But they are wildly emotional and also have no concept of English notions of honor and fair play. 
<2023-05-22T13:51:42.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I do wonder if that is as much to do as their time under communism or if its because they’re, well, Slavs 
<2023-05-22T13:52:13.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Of course our English ideas about fair play have led directly to us tying our own hands while jews replace us. 
<2023-05-22T13:53:16.000Z> LawrenceGerald: My sense is that slavs are just the way they are, bc in all the slav countries you see sort of the same general character. 70 years of atheism didn't help. 
<2023-05-22T13:54:02.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well all those Slav countries also were under the Soviet Union for quite some time, so 
<2023-05-22T13:54:24.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Years ago I read a book on the history of the Orthodox Church in Russia. Don't recall the name, it was written in the 70s when it looked like the Iron Curtain would never go away. 
<2023-05-22T13:55:58.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Russians were a very simple people, descended from Vikings who pushed east. They didn't have high culture or literature. They actually got all that from the Byzantines in the form of Scripture and the Holy Fathers. 
<2023-05-22T13:57:07.000Z> LawrenceGerald: But, as has been noted, Russians have a deep capacity for faith and repentance. Their signature was in living a completely Christian life. 
<2023-05-22T13:57:16.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well tbh the Germanics didn’t really have high culture either, not that I know of anyway 
<2023-05-22T13:57:29.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Pretty sure they got their high culture from Rome 
<2023-05-22T13:59:14.000Z> LawrenceGerald: In the 1800s the Russian nobility began to fall away from the faith, to embrace Western modernity. It was fashionable. The Bolshevik Revolution couldn't have happened without this. Only the peasants and ignorant people kept the faith by the turn of the 20th century. The last Tsar's family was a notable exception to this. 
<2023-05-22T14:00:14.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: As I recall it started with Peter, called Peter the Great by some. I didn’t straight up call him “the Great” because I know some don’t like him for introducing the Enlightenment to Russia.
<2023-05-22T14:01:43.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Even though the Soviets killed tens of thousands of priests and nuns, and persecuted hundreds of thousands of ordinary Christians, and took over the remnants of the Church that remained in Russia (the Sergianists) they couldn't really kill the Church. 
<2023-05-22T14:04:38.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That bit you mentioned about how it was only the peasants who kept the faith is a story that is repeated in many countries in Europe 
<2023-05-22T14:05:12.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Many such cases.
<2023-05-22T14:05:47.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Hungary right after WW1 is one, I’m pretty sure.
<2023-05-22T14:06:03.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: France in the aftermath of the French Revolution is another.
<2023-05-22T14:06:12.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I think about this a lot. Russia suffered horribly for 100 years. It was only after the Communists fell, during all the chaos that followed that, that the country repented. They canonized the Romanovs that were killed as martyrs. 
<2023-05-22T14:07:16.000Z> LawrenceGerald: If you know any protestants, you will know that they have a distorted view of salvation. 
<2023-05-22T14:09:10.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Mostly what I know about Protestantism has more to do with their, shall we say, “social innovation”
<2023-05-22T14:09:22.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Almost none of them can accept the idea that America was founded on protestant heresy and weird masonic ideals. They will not even entertain the idea that the whole country has to repent and turn to Christ in simple faith. 
<2023-05-22T14:09:41.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: To my knowledge, they basically legalised usury. But I’m not entirely sure on the whole theological aspect so maybe tell me more?
<2023-05-22T14:11:52.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: From what I can tell though, reading the Bible extremely literally is directly a product of Protestantism 
<2023-05-22T14:13:49.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I also know about Freemasonry so you aren’t alone here, don’t worry 
<2023-05-22T14:14:08.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Romans developed divergent ideas about salvation after the schism. These included the concept of purgatory, a "place" souls went after death but before the General Resurrection where they were punished for their sins but after that, could go to heaven. Orthodox don't have this. Anyway, the Church then decided to game the practice of intercessory prayer with the concept of indulgences. You could pay $ and have the church ask the saints to pray for your loved ones and God would decide to quit punishing them. 
<2023-05-22T14:14:54.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Turned out to be quite a moneymaker for the Roman church. 
<2023-05-22T14:17:10.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That concept of indulgences… barely makes any sense from a spiritual point of view 
<2023-05-22T14:17:21.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Well, more like it doesn’t make sense 
<2023-05-22T14:21:58.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The Romans didn't pluck it out of nowhere. As I understand, not ever having been Roman, it is based on the ancient concept of intercessory prayer. This has been with the Church since the beginning and is its own subject. it has to do with the fact that we don't believe the dead are dead, but alive in Christ. They are with God, singing hymns and praising him and beholding his glory at all times. 
<2023-05-22T14:22:12.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Man I hope I'm not screwing this up.
<2023-05-22T14:24:52.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Anyway, purgatory and indulgences are heretical innovations that are counter to Orthodoxy. When the protestants rejected these, as they rightly should have, they rejected the entire notion of the Saints and intercessory prayer. They believe very different things about souls and death and salvation and what happens when the body dies and what bodies even are.
<2023-05-22T14:25:22.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: As for weird Masonic ideas, not exactly the same but I remember someone on blab screeching at me like a harpy and accusing me of being anti-German when I openly voiced my displeasure towards Illuminism and Adam Weishaupt 
<2023-05-22T14:26:10.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Most protestants know only that Romans believed in indulgences, and that was evil, so Romans must be evil and everything they believe must be wrong. This is how 99.9% of protestants think, Srsly, it goes no deeper than that. 
<2023-05-22T14:26:41.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: That’s like how many self proclaimed blab pagans think, ngl lol 
<2023-05-22T14:27:06.000Z> LawrenceGerald: They think that Orthodox are really secretly Roman Catholics. They know nothing of non-European history. 
<2023-05-22T14:28:58.000Z> LawrenceGerald: They are like my friend I talked to on the phone yesterday. She told me she supported Ron DeSantis, but now she doesn't because he ¡bans books! and also ¡nazis banned books! so Ron DeSantis is a nazi! and also he's a fascist! 
<2023-05-22T14:29:38.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Blab pagans see a bunch of people who call themselves Christians doing insane shit and from there come to the conclusion that all Christians are ackchually secretly in favour of the NWO or something 
<2023-05-22T14:30:18.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I can only sigh at people like your friend 
<2023-05-22T14:30:37.000Z> LawrenceGerald: But back to protestants, and their ideas of salvation, almost none of them can articulate an coherent doctrine, because they all believe different things.
<2023-05-22T14:30:47.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: There is no way you can have any kind of stable identity and thought with this mindset.
<2023-05-22T14:31:21.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The fact of the matter is, though, that loving your enemies IS central to Christianity. 
<2023-05-22T14:31:42.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I don't like it, but I get it.
<2023-05-22T14:31:57.000Z> LawrenceGerald: That's where the Christcuck term comes from. 
<2023-05-22T14:32:42.000Z> LawrenceGerald: If you are really going to be Christian, esp. Orthodox, then your spiritual warfare will come in the form of battling evil within your own soul.
<2023-05-22T14:34:41.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The super-literal-Bible-interpreting came about as an attempt to right the ship of protestantism. If you tell a protestant that the Church existed for hundreds of years before there was a Bible, they will argue and become irrational. 
<2023-05-22T14:36:31.000Z> LawrenceGerald: It's almost like they don't believe in God. At least, they don't believe Christ is really the head of the Church, and that it's up to them to carefully, legalistically, pharisaically interpret Scripture OR ELSE.  
<2023-05-22T14:36:57.000Z> LawrenceGerald: They don't have authority, and they desperately want it. 
<2023-05-22T14:37:40.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Did I answer the question you asked? I've just been kind of going off. 
<2023-05-22T14:38:09.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Didn’t Protestantism also basically reject any kind of authority and tradition lmao? That’s another one of its “social innovations” that I just remembered.
<2023-05-22T14:38:10.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Man, I hope you're also talking to someone more qualified about this stuff.
<2023-05-22T14:39:00.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: No its fine that you go off like this, I don’t mind it because I don’t know that much about this stuff 
<2023-05-22T14:39:16.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Yes, they do reject tradition. Near as I can tell, the entire reason for that is that if Romans have tradition, it must be evil, therefore it logically follows that no tradition is a good thing!
<2023-05-22T14:39:48.000Z> LawrenceGerald: You see? America had nihilism baked into the cake from the beginning. 
<2023-05-22T14:40:04.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: In that case I think it quite ironic that they would desire authority when they themselves started out by rejecting authority and tradition 
<2023-05-22T14:40:34.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Almost as if one shouldn’t just dismiss authority and tradition, hmmm
<2023-05-22T14:40:36.000Z> LawrenceGerald: We all desire authority. It was implanted in our souls by God. 
<2023-05-22T14:41:10.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Christ was subject to to the will of his father, both in his divine nature and in his human nature. 
<2023-05-22T14:43:13.000Z> LawrenceGerald: So they desire authority, but insist it can come ONLY from the Bible. I should add here that most of them are not stupid people, and they do love God and desire to please him. 
<2023-05-22T14:43:41.000Z> LawrenceGerald: All the theological errors were made by the big brains. Remember that. 
<2023-05-22T14:45:11.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I guess there are drawbacks to being a mentat
<2023-05-22T14:47:13.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >” Near as I can tell, the entire reason for that is that if Romans have tradition, it must be evil, therefore it logically follows that no tradition is a good thing!”<
<2023-05-22T14:47:23.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Yeah, the above is not good
<2023-05-22T14:47:28.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Great power, great responsibility. Therefore it is needful to seek humility. 
<2023-05-22T14:47:49.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I don’t think anything good can come out of having a “negative identity”, so to speak 
<2023-05-22T14:47:59.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: It’s lightswitch-brain tier.
<2023-05-22T14:48:49.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Like, you’re not your own thing if you are like this, you know?
<2023-05-22T14:48:53.000Z> LawrenceGerald: >“negative identity” yes that is clear now, but obv at the time it seemed logical to ppl, who were not dumb
<2023-05-22T14:49:20.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: You’ll always be defined in relation to someone else, which cannot be a good thing
<2023-05-22T14:49:47.000Z> LawrenceGerald: All I know is that I am really grateful to have found my way into Orthodoxy. Everything makes sense, it really is a cohesive worldview. 
<2023-05-22T14:50:25.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I also appreciate that it demands so much from me, body, mind, and soul. 
<2023-05-22T14:51:42.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Anyway, it may please you to hear that I’ve actually managed to read the miracle of the wine in John 2
<2023-05-22T14:51:52.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I like that one very much too 
<2023-05-22T14:52:16.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The story of the wedding at Cana?
<2023-05-22T14:52:24.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Yeah, that one 
<2023-05-22T14:52:46.000Z> LawrenceGerald: That one is usually cited as justification for praying to Mary to intercede with her son.
<2023-05-22T14:53:04.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I like how Christ did not seem to move but somehow the water was turned into wine 
<2023-05-22T14:53:35.000Z> LawrenceGerald: She knew he was God, and that he could do it.
<2023-05-22T14:54:45.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The love and veneration of Mother of God was another thing the protestants threw out wholesale. 
<2023-05-22T14:55:59.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Which led, in due time, to the deathly evil that is feminism. 
<2023-05-22T14:56:18.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: The reasoning being that it is somehow idolatrous?
<2023-05-22T14:56:36.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Yes, they consider it so
<2023-05-22T14:57:25.000Z> LawrenceGerald: The Romans had gone from veneration to something approaching worship of Mary. 
<2023-05-22T14:57:35.000Z> LawrenceGerald: There's some weird "doctrine of co-redemption." 
<2023-05-22T14:58:12.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Which is sad, because the fact that Mary said yes where Eve said no is pivotal to our salvation. 
<2023-05-22T15:00:04.000Z> LawrenceGerald: All her life, Mary was deeply pure and  humble and would never have accepted worship. She always pointed to her son. In Orthodox iconography she is always shown pointing to and looking at Christ. 
<2023-05-22T15:00:38.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh btw, I actually wanted to leave a comment for this bit but you were explaining Protestantism so I didn’t want to derail too much
<2023-05-22T15:00:47.000Z> LawrenceGerald: hit me
<2023-05-22T15:00:49.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: This bit: >” In the 1800s the Russian nobility began to fall away from the faith, to embrace Western modernity. It was fashionable.”<
<2023-05-22T15:01:11.000Z> LawrenceGerald: yes?
<2023-05-22T15:01:17.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: At this point, it is doubtful if this nobility is truly the same nobility and aristocracy of yore 
<2023-05-22T15:01:27.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Perhaps they are
<2023-05-22T15:01:54.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: But they became bourgeois and essentially merchant-souled 
<2023-05-22T15:01:58.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I think they were, but they were seduced by nihilsm
<2023-05-22T15:02:24.000Z> LawrenceGerald: >bourgeois and essentially merchant-souled  exactly!
<2023-05-22T15:03:21.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I recently read The Brothers Karamazov and the falling-away from simple Orthodox faith is well-documented in that novel
<2023-05-22T15:03:27.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Like they’re physically still the nobility but spiritually they’ve become the bourgeoisie 
<2023-05-22T15:05:41.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I also recently read Tina Brown's two books on the British royal family and yikes. They've been sexually degenerate and merchant-souled for quite some time now. It's not a recent thing, 
<2023-05-22T15:06:40.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I'm embarrassed that I read about the royals. I've never been terribly interested in them but I wanted to understand. My take is that I can go back to ignoring them. 
<2023-05-22T15:07:20.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Shit like this is also why I get why some people disagree with monarchists 
<2023-05-22T15:07:35.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: *why I get some 
<2023-05-22T15:07:38.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oops
<2023-05-22T15:09:06.000Z> LawrenceGerald: the British royals have fallen a long way from King Alfred the Great orthodoxwiki.org/Alfred_the_Great
<2023-05-22T15:09:56.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Yeah, royalty being fallen is why I get the sentiment against monarchism by some nationalists 
<2023-05-22T15:09:56.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Saint Alfred is the patron saint of our house.
<2023-05-22T15:10:13.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Ohhh really?
<2023-05-22T15:10:37.000Z> LawrenceGerald: One musn't put faith in people, but in God, but there is long tradition of holy royalty
<2023-05-22T15:12:38.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Really the reason Saint Alfred was chosen as our patron for the house is that the family who lived here before us had a dog named "Alf." I'm sure it was named after the teevee character. Alf is buried at the foot of a hill on the property and they wrote me a note asking that we respect his grave. I gather that Alf was a beloved and very gud boi. 
<2023-05-22T15:13:37.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Since I am an extreme dog person, of course I am going to respect Alf's grave. In fact I have plans for a memorial garden there. 
<2023-05-22T15:14:04.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I can imagine, plus there have been cases where doggos become essentially another family member 
<2023-05-22T15:14:57.000Z> LawrenceGerald: So I looked to see whether there was a Saint Alfred, and behold. He was responsible for codifying Christian morality into law in Britain. WOW.
<2023-05-22T15:15:18.000Z> LawrenceGerald: He is the very model of holy royalty. 
<2023-05-22T15:16:08.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Our dogs are very much family members. They are wired by God to be pack animals, so they instinctively fit themselves into family life. 
<2023-05-22T15:16:43.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Even as a shill for authoritarianism, I recognise the importance of virtue in the ruler and well, atheism doesn’t exactly have a wonderful track record in instilling virtue 
<2023-05-22T15:17:39.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I dated a guy once, super-smart, who had been raised protestant, rejected it, and had devoted his life to proving that morality DOES NOT EITHER come from God. Heh. 
<2023-05-22T15:18:31.000Z> LawrenceGerald: He wanted to be a good and moral person, but without all that God nonsense. 
<2023-05-22T15:18:43.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: >morality does not come from God
<2023-05-22T15:19:11.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Oh, the number of people who think this is possible 
<2023-05-22T15:19:21.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I used to be like this too, if I’m not wrong 
<2023-05-22T15:19:23.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Yeah, wishful thinking
<2023-05-22T15:19:59.000Z> LawrenceGerald: We just randomly, accidentally "evolved" with a common idea of good within us. 
<2023-05-22T15:20:05.000Z> LawrenceGerald: riiiiiiiiiight
<2023-05-22T15:20:32.000Z> LawrenceGerald: one sees proof of this everywhere (not anywhere)
<2023-05-22T15:25:07.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I mean if you want to be a good and moral person, as in an objectively good and moral person, there must be some standard for you to refer to that allows you to deem yourself so 
<2023-05-22T15:25:42.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I believe he was involved in writing out what this standard would be. 
<2023-05-22T15:26:33.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Personally I don’t see how you could do this without this “being” some might call God, who is also in some sense measure 
<2023-05-22T15:26:56.000Z> LawrenceGerald: At the time, I was not in the Church, but did believe in God, and I thought the whole thing was silly. Of course he was millions of times smarter than I was and I couldn't lay forth any kind of persuasive case for my belief in god, but I didn't care and I still don't.
<2023-05-22T15:27:40.000Z> LawrenceGerald: All my neuroses and foibles and failures remind me that I am of myself nothing, and I NEED God. 
<2023-05-22T15:28:35.000Z> LawrenceGerald: If I were successful and had high status in the eyes of others, even on blab, I would think I was somehow important. It would be easy to stop seeking God. 
<2023-05-22T15:29:09.000Z> LawrenceGerald: But I am not! I am a petty person and my only hope is God. 
<2023-05-22T15:29:48.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I do have a rather vigorous survival instinct and I try to apply that to faith. 
<2023-05-22T15:31:33.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Anyway, it's housework time. Don't know if you have time to listen to podcasts, but this one is pretty good. ancientfaith.com/podcasts/lordofspirits/saint_constantine_the_great
<2023-05-22T15:31:56.000Z> LawrenceGerald: This episode which I haven't listened to yet is about holy royalty
<2023-05-22T15:33:12.000Z> LawrenceGerald: One of the hosts, Fr Stephen DeYoung, is a bonafide mentat genius priest. Unfortunately, the other host is ... not ... and he's kind of irritating. But Fr Stephen's stuff is so genius I persist. 
<2023-05-22T15:34:12.000Z> LawrenceGerald: I've been listening to this one, which is about what a soul even is. ancientfaith.com/podcasts/lordofspirits/who_stole_the_soul
<2023-05-22T15:34:33.000Z> LawrenceGerald: So, my fren, I'll holler at you later. 
<2023-05-22T15:35:30.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Later then!
<2023-05-22T16:19:27.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Heh, that didn't last long. actually I'll be jumping up to finish what I started but I looked at the spending spreadsheet ... it cost us $50 the other day to have hamburgers, with (non-alcoholic) drink, sides, and tip. Admittedly these were sort of gourmet burgers, not cheap fast food, but wow. Inflation. And yesterday I went to a hot chicken place where I paid $20 for ONE chicken tender, side, and drink + tip. 
<2023-05-22T16:20:26.000Z> LawrenceGerald: Eating in restaurants is going to have to be a rare treat from now on if we're to live economically. 
<2023-05-22T21:52:59.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: $50 for gourmet burgers is still really wild, jeez
<2023-05-22T21:55:18.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: $20 for one chicken tender, side and drink + tip??
<2023-05-22T21:55:25.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Wow.
<2023-05-22T23:08:56.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Yeah you can probably figure this out by now but my family rarely eats out at restaurants 
<2023-05-22T23:09:37.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: No way a working class family like mine could afford to eat out at restaurants of all places all the time 
<2023-05-22T23:10:59.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: If we’re eating out, majority of the time its going to be at some hawker centre 
<2023-05-22T23:11:23.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: You don’t have an equivalent in America I believe so you might want to look this one up 
<2023-05-22T23:12:40.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: Restaurants are for the most part limited to special occasions for us 
<2023-05-22T23:27:32.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: As for the question of pride… goddammit, I’d be lying to myself if I said I never succumbed to or at least felt the draw of pride.
<2023-05-23T01:56:36.000Z> plotinus_enjoyer: I guess I’ll need to find that balance when shitpoasting for the funnies 