<2021-08-27T16:53:56.000Z> AnonymousBosch: Switching to DMs so this isn't a pissing contest: honestly tho, would you not be happy if a bunch of tech obsessed bugmen and niggers wanted to migrate out of your county/state/country en masse?
<2021-08-27T16:54:51.000Z> mute_city: Yeah 
<2021-08-27T16:55:21.000Z> mute_city: But i expect that would be more like 80% of people 
<2021-08-27T16:55:24.000Z> AnonymousBosch: Would there be tax/amenity drawbacks? Hell yeah. But if I could pay a "nigger/faggot premium" to avoid those people I already would.
<2021-08-27T16:57:06.000Z> AnonymousBosch: I also suspect like 80% would be an untenable number of people able to leave, so many would acclimatize. People are good at that.
<2021-08-27T16:57:40.000Z> mute_city: i don't know how old you are but i remember people buying cathode ray TV sets for 3 monthly payments.
<2021-08-27T16:57:52.000Z> mute_city: this tells you how much they want this 
<2021-08-27T16:58:08.000Z> mute_city: *3 monthly salaries* 
<2021-08-27T16:58:16.000Z> AnonymousBosch: Damn, are we both Gen-X (or Y maybe)?
<2021-08-27T16:58:36.000Z> mute_city: no matter what i do, what you propose sounds like the soviet union to me 
<2021-08-27T16:59:11.000Z> mute_city: born in the 80s 
<2021-08-27T17:01:08.000Z> AnonymousBosch: Ahh, so we're both products of that era then. I worry Red Scare propaganda makes too many of us averse to *any* amount of state control. It's all "communism," which is grating. Deprogramming from "rugged American individualism" was something that took me (is taking) years 
<2021-08-27T17:01:41.000Z> AnonymousBosch: So many people tell me "tv is just a tool, it can be good" but don't apply that same logic to the State.
<2021-08-27T17:02:28.000Z> AnonymousBosch: Tv is, in many ways, nothing more than an extension of our State, just behind various layers of culpable deniability. Tv could be good, but that would require having a good State first. It's a nasty paradox.
<2021-08-27T17:03:34.000Z> AnonymousBosch: I get why the Taliban smashes tvs outright: they see it as a liability/gateway for their enemy. And they're right, to be frank.
<2021-08-27T17:04:40.000Z> AnonymousBosch: People on "our side" (which I use liberally, since the Right in general is an abstract mess) seem to think they can utilize tools that are still firmly and unshakeably in our enemy's grasp, and the Taliban attitude is honestly healthier for the time being, if too crude and simplistic in the long run.
<2021-08-27T17:06:08.000Z> mute_city: No red scare, lol - i lived behind the iron curtain. That's how i'm sure people desire the shiny larger then life images from the magical box way too much if you took it from them.
<2021-08-27T17:06:58.000Z> AnonymousBosch: Ha! Alright, I see where you're coming from them. A close friend of mine and his wife are from Bulgaria, so I understand the perspective.
<2021-08-27T17:08:48.000Z> mute_city: Yeah i agree on tv itself being a problematic medium. Baudrillard calls it more real than real. Behavioural biologist put it more clearly: superstimulus.
<2021-08-27T17:08:53.000Z> AnonymousBosch: I guess I need to ask then- to what extent would you be willing to act (unpopularly) on behalf of a people you loved? What's an acceptable level of control that doesn't lead to soviet crudity and inefficiency with loads of contraband?
<2021-08-27T17:09:10.000Z> mute_city: people trust the screen more than their own eyes, and that's always going to be a problem 
<2021-08-27T17:09:45.000Z> mute_city: that's a really good question :) 
<2021-08-27T17:09:48.000Z> AnonymousBosch: Baudrillard's idea of the Hyperreal was part of what me *personally* start to unplug from a majority of media. 
<2021-08-27T17:09:58.000Z> AnonymousBosch: *made me personally*
<2021-08-27T17:10:42.000Z> mute_city: yeah i did the same - the few months i managed to also not use the internet was the best i ever felt 
<2021-08-27T17:11:12.000Z> AnonymousBosch: And made me really want to disconnect friends as well, but success has only really happened on a micro scale: I can't seem to unglue parents (I don't want to say lost cause but...), but friends and church members are amenable when we talk
<2021-08-27T17:11:19.000Z> AnonymousBosch: Same: being offline is refreshing.
<2021-08-27T17:11:51.000Z> mute_city: what i worry about is not so much that it's mean or "unfree" but that it simply won't last long if it was felt to be - knowaddimean?
<2021-08-27T17:14:10.000Z> AnonymousBosch: I know what you mean poignantly. But we could throw up our hands over the opiate crisis too, but I don't wanna live blackpilled. I'd be out destroying pill dispensaries if I didn't have a wife, dad with cancer, and (likely) a kid on the way in my house.
<2021-08-27T17:14:11.000Z> mute_city: "i don't watch TV" has been a mark of the better-then-you-crowd for as long as i can remember 
<2021-08-27T17:15:18.000Z> AnonymousBosch: See- I work with high schoolers so I don't hear that sort of aristocratic pissing contest around me lol. They cannot be made to shut up about their favorite brands/shows/streaming services without vociferous castigation.
<2021-08-27T17:15:29.000Z> mute_city: so it's already there, people follow elite opinions - all we need to do is become the elite 
<2021-08-27T17:16:02.000Z> AnonymousBosch: Yes- now *that* is the hard part when many of /ourguys/ are happy to play into the worst stereotypes of the wigger and its consoomerism
<2021-08-27T17:16:15.000Z> mute_city: ... and not be annoying about it. the examples i know come off like vegans 
<2021-08-27T17:18:10.000Z> AnonymousBosch: Being elite without being elitist is threading a fine needle
<2021-08-27T17:18:39.000Z> AnonymousBosch: You must be someone regular Joes wanna idealize but not be dismissive and unapproachable to them
<2021-08-27T17:20:24.000Z> mute_city: i know several people that have this 
<2021-08-27T17:21:32.000Z> mute_city: one of them turned out to be an anti vaxer, non of the shitlibs around him dare to give him the eye. they respect him too much 
<2021-08-27T17:22:07.000Z> AnonymousBosch: But this gets away from a really immediate issue: how can we make regular folk (I hate the term "normies" as those people aren't normal) uncouple from Baudrillard's "matrix"?
<2021-08-27T17:22:54.000Z> AnonymousBosch: How can we sell them on that? I think Covid has (ironically) done a lot to kill the modern blockbuster for a lot of people. I'll be sad if ticket grosses recover, and I wish people in our circles would pounce on that
<2021-08-27T17:23:17.000Z> mute_city: if i were a jew i would say - make famous people utter this opinion 
<2021-08-27T17:23:24.000Z> AnonymousBosch: Ha!
<2021-08-27T17:23:45.000Z> AnonymousBosch: Lol, can we use the Jew to defeat the jew? (looks at Sauron's ring covetously)
<2021-08-27T17:24:06.000Z> mute_city: our option is meme warfare - until some of /ourguys/ become public figures of respect 
<2021-08-27T17:24:38.000Z> AnonymousBosch: Sadly /ourguys/ that get irl famous turn into Bidenstans or are actually fat fucks or feds.
<2021-08-27T17:24:39.000Z> mute_city: pounce, how?
<2021-08-27T17:26:13.000Z> mute_city: have you seen the consoomproduct reddit ? 
<2021-08-27T17:26:26.000Z> AnonymousBosch: Convince regular folks that bemoan theaters being closed to come over to their place. It's small, but it's a tenable start. "Fuck Covid! We'll have a party, talk about [non-pozzed] hobbies... oh, where's my tv? I... don't have one. It's cool that you do though.."
<2021-08-27T17:26:50.000Z> mute_city: i think it existed for a month or two, before it was shut down for being too right wing 
<2021-08-27T17:27:38.000Z> mute_city: anywhoo, you regularly had redditors proclaiming - "ok that's it, i'm deleting my account and focus on my garden" 
<2021-08-27T17:27:55.000Z> mute_city: this stuff is attractive to people 
<2021-08-27T17:28:28.000Z> mute_city: "Convince regular folks [...]" 
<2021-08-27T17:28:33.000Z> mute_city: very good 
<2021-08-27T17:32:30.000Z> AnonymousBosch: Honestly? What I do online is to blow off steam and shitpoast with friends out of physical reach rn. I think a lot of really online Righties are actually detrimental to the movements (and I don't mean in a fedpoasty "DO SOMETHING" kinda way). The best right wingers are the people I see living in the country (saving up for an orchard myself), having multigenerational homes, and taking care of other rightwingers irl to help push them away from the middle.
<2021-08-27T17:33:08.000Z> AnonymousBosch: I absolutely agree about "I'ma fuck off to my garden." The more we make that attitude attractive and appealing the less unseemly work decoupling people with duress.
<2021-08-27T17:35:39.000Z> AnonymousBosch: I think towns can also promote this less onerously by doing old-timey things. My hometown has weekend festivals, a guy who got rich renovated the town square on his own dime and opened a quaint little theatre, a music venue, and a bar. 
<2021-08-27T17:37:18.000Z> AnonymousBosch: But I realize that's an outlier. I'm still parsing through how to do this on a wider scale and am struggling not to fall into "smash tvs" with Occam's Razor.
<2021-08-27T17:37:29.000Z> mute_city: +1 for the irl right wing people you described, this is pretty much what i aspire to myself. Lead by example and convince people by *being* something worthy of emulation instead of getting in their faces.
<2021-08-27T17:39:06.000Z> AnonymousBosch: I only start shit online because if we're here we deserve to have the piss taken out since we're not practicing what we preach here. I'm not immune to that.
<2021-08-27T17:39:47.000Z> mute_city: ok :) 
<2021-08-27T17:39:57.000Z> AnonymousBosch: Anyone can come into my DMs and I will instantly switch from schizopoasting to providing data on how to acquire cheap land, circumvent taxes on most of it, and actively get paid to let said land lie fallow
<2021-08-27T17:41:13.000Z> AnonymousBosch: I treat the fedi like a (slightly) less degenerate /pol/. We should be bantzing. It keeps us sharp for when/if lefties try to have something to say.
<2021-08-27T17:41:39.000Z> mute_city: gotcha 